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FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Round 1 - Can we achieve more then one sell out |
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| Quote: Clearwing "I was thinking in terms of run-of-the-mill supporters rather than corporate. I referred to decrepit grounds merely because your results & Cas's have actually been more than respectable recently so I'd assumed - maybe wrongly - that the grounds were a factor in limiting crowds. I'm in agreement with both yourself & Bramley on your take on the clubs' responsibilities and while the RFL could probably do more it would take the inevitable kicking were it perceived to be marketing one club more favourably than a near neighbour.'"
I don't really get this numbers thing, it's not about numbers it's about maximisation of what you have. Wakefield and Csa will never match Leeds for crowds because one is a huge city, one is a town pretending it's a city and the other is a suburb of that city. Despite this both clubs do ok, Cas average arounf 8k Wakefield 6k. I honestly don't see how Cas could get many more if their stadium were made of gold. Wakefield could maybe get up to 8k with them but what you have to remember is that Wakefield the city as opposed to WMDC are two seperate entities. The population ofthe city is quiet small, the MDC is large but vey diverse and has no affinity to the city in a sporting sence.
Where we do lose out due to our crao stadiums is on corporate and general usage, on that one you are correct. It is here where we could drasitcally improve oure income sources and it is here where we are being held back.
Once you take juniors, concessions and costs from ticket purchases then if your lucky an extra 2k supporters may net you an extra 25k a game (approx 300k P/A). Not to be sniffed at but corporate lounges, boxes and all year round events if done well could give you a P/A income of double that, maybe more. Added to this I think it's a lot easier to attract corporate money than it is to attract new or lost fans, that can only really happen with sustained success on the pitch which is a real catch 22. So imo it's the lack of corporate/commercial facilites rather than fans through the turnstiles that is really killing us.
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| Just a quick look around the SL club websites and Twitter shows they is not enough donr in promoting the first game.
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| I just hope that the down turn in spectator numbers is arrested, and attendances increase. Sell outs are going to be difficult to achieve.
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| I still think that Catalans' heightened prestige following the Challenge Cup win, plus the addition of Samuel Tomkins to the team roster, is going to strengthen Castleford's attendance for the opening match -- so much so that the wobbly old stadium will be bursting at the seams.
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| Quote: bramleyrhino "Each club will have their own challenges, but in essence you go through that five step process.
I'd go about understanding the audiences that the clubs currently attract, the ones that they don't and, of those, the ones that I reasonably could attract.
I'd understand what those audiences are looking for in return for their leisure dollar, what their idea of a good evening out / family day out involves, and I'd invest my efforts in catering to that - whether that's facilities, experience or whatever. We previously had Bull/CougarMania and for all the stick that Toronto get about being a glorified beer festival, they've found an aspect of the matchday experience that seems to work.
I'd find the right marketing media to reach these people with those messages. Digital media makes it incredibly easy to target very specific segements of an audience, and that's something we can utilise without a massive budget or the right connections or school tie.
I'd be getting the sport, club and players in the media more often. We have so many stories that this sport can tell and yet, all we ever hear about is bickering amongst the CEOs, Chairmen and gobe pundits. Let's start telling the stories of the real characters. I'd be pumping out content, talking to the media and making it easier for journalists to run those stories - we have to do their job for them in many respects, because that way they're more likely to do our job for us. Brian Carney has spoken quite candidly about how hard it is for Sky, our biggest media partner and customer, to get anything out of the clubs once the central funding cheque had cleared - that's a complete failure of media communications and it has to change. There needs to be better dialogue with the media and if Sky want access to our players, we should be granting it with no questions asked.
I'd utilise tactics like CRM and marketing automation to reignite interest and keep audiences engaged. Clubs should have a wealth of data about their current supporters and those supporters who might have lapsed. Those clubs should know which of the former they could possibly upsell and they should have some understanding about how they can encourage some of their lapsed supporters to come back. Whether that is tactical offers (rather than blanket promotions like cheap season tickets that just give discounts to people who would have paid full price), or some other incentive - they need to be proactive on those audience segments.
But above all, there needs to be a clear USP. This is, admittedly, were it does need some centralised thinking but let's not forget that the clubs are now running the show. We used to call ourselves "a family sport", but that was basically just code for "we don't have a hooligan problem". In 2018, how many professional sports have a hooligan problem? The only one that did has largely cleaned up its act, whilst we are probably offering less and less what a 'family' expects from a day out at £20 a head.
We claim to be a fast, powerful sport, but we're hardly alone in that either. At the moment, this sport just doesn't stand out for anything, and it makes us less relevant by the day. I've used this analogy before, but the sport is being run by the commitee of a working men's club who can't understand why the function room is dead apart from Doris and her mates waiting for bingo, while the expensive cocktail bars in town are packed full of cool, good looking people paying £15 for a drink.
All of these are tools that the clubs largely have at their disposal today. My view is that they just aren't using them effectively. It seems that clubs are more than happy to pay to put some posters up around town and outside the ground, yet baulk at putting money into forms of promoting themselves that could be much more effective and measurable.'"
Spot on
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| Quote: vastman "I don't really get this numbers thing, it's not about numbers it's about maximisation of what you have. Wakefield and Csa will never match Leeds for crowds because one is a huge city, one is a town pretending it's a city and the other is a suburb of that city. Despite this both clubs do ok, Cas average arounf 8k Wakefield 6k. I honestly don't see how Cas could get many more if their stadium were made of gold. Wakefield could maybe get up to 8k with them but what you have to remember is that Wakefield the city as opposed to WMDC are two seperate entities. The population ofthe city is quiet small, the MDC is large but vey diverse and has no affinity to the city in a sporting sence.
Where we do lose out due to our crao stadiums is on corporate and general usage, on that one you are correct. It is here where we could drasitcally improve oure income sources and it is here where we are being held back.
Once you take juniors, concessions and costs from ticket purchases then if your lucky an extra 2k supporters may net you an extra 25k a game (approx 300k P/A). Not to be sniffed at but corporate lounges, boxes and all year round events if done well could give you a P/A income of double that, maybe more. Added to this I think it's a lot easier to attract corporate money than it is to attract new or lost fans, that can only really happen with sustained success on the pitch which is a real catch 22. So imo it's the lack of corporate/commercial facilites rather than fans through the turnstiles that is really killing us.'"
Agree with most of that. Even though our corporate area is pretty decent considering the ground it's in, a bigger, better-speced hospitality would do wonders & would probably earn the club more than say a couple hundred extra fans. But I also think even in Belle Vue getting our average up to 6500/7000 is very possible and would make a difference not only to match days but the knock-on effect to merchandise and even things like Trinity TV would be a huge boost to the amount we can spend on players etc.
The point about the population, yes your right in one respect WMD is what about 340k which isn't full of people with an affinity to the City, therefore a potential fan. But if you still take away places such as Castleford, Pontefract N and S, South Elmsall, South Kikby, Ackworth, Upton, Featherstone, Hemsworth, and a few others, we're still left with just under 200k people which is a bigger potential fan base than some people think IMO.
There's a helpful website below that enables you to untick areas that you want in the Wakefield MD to give population numbers
rlhttps://www.wakefieldjsna.co.uk/resident-population/rl.
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| Quote: vastman "I don't really get this numbers thing, it's not about numbers it's about maximisation of what you have. Wakefield and Csa will never match Leeds for crowds because one is a huge city, one is a town pretending it's a city and the other is a suburb of that city. Despite this both clubs do ok, Cas average arounf 8k Wakefield 6k. I honestly don't see how Cas could get many more if their stadium were made of gold. Wakefield could maybe get up to 8k with them but what you have to remember is that Wakefield the city as opposed to WMDC are two seperate entities. The population ofthe city is quiet small, the MDC is large but vey diverse and has no affinity to the city in a sporting sence.
Where we do lose out due to our crao stadiums is on corporate and general usage, on that one you are correct. It is here where we could drasitcally improve oure income sources and it is here where we are being held back.
Once you take juniors, concessions and costs from ticket purchases then if your lucky an extra 2k supporters may net you an extra 25k a game (approx 300k P/A). Not to be sniffed at but corporate lounges, boxes and all year round events if done well could give you a P/A income of double that, maybe more. Added to this I think it's a lot easier to attract corporate money than it is to attract new or lost fans, that can only really happen with sustained success on the pitch which is a real catch 22. So imo it's the lack of corporate/commercial facilites rather than fans through the turnstiles that is really killing us.'"
St Helens has half the population of Wakefield but nearly twice the average attendance
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| Quote: Ruune Rebellion "St Helens has half the population of Wakefield but nearly twice the average attendance'"
Could you please tell the masses what the respective populations are and perhaps provide a link to the source of your information.
I believe that St Helens actually has around 50% more than Wakefield.
It would be terible for all concerned if you have included the people of Castleford and Featherstone in your information
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "Could you please tell the masses what the respective populations are and perhaps provide a link to the source of your information.
I believe that St Helens actually has around 50% more than Wakefield.
It would be terible for all concerned if you have included the people of Castleford and Featherstone in your information
Wakefield, Wigan, St helens population give a or take a few K 100k mark., st helens Wigan double or nearly double Wakefields average.
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| Quote: Towns88 "no one outside Catalans really gives a toss they won the C cup last year '"
Bit dismissive. Though I was on the losing side as a Wire I acknowledge the Cats win as a great achievement and they have done some excellent marketing on the back of it, including setting up the game at Camp Nou.
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| Quote: Asgardian13 "Bit dismissive. Though I was on the losing side as a Wire I acknowledge the Cats win as a great achievement and they have done some excellent marketing on the back of it, including setting up the game at Camp Nou.'"
i wanted Catalan to win and glad they did, (no offense to Warrington) but it made more national news than previous recent CC. it was good for the game, and it ed of heart lander types especially Wakey fans who are just the worse when it comes to slating Catalans and expansion of any kind.
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| Quote: rollin thunder "i wanted Catalan to win and glad they did, (no offense to Warrington) but it made more national news than previous recent CC. it was good for the game, and it vexed of heart lander types especially Wakey fans who are just the worse when it comes to slating Catalans and expansion of any kind.'"
You seem to be an authoritarian when it comes to all things Wakey, not surprising really with all the sheite you keep talking about them, maybe there's nothing worth talking about at the whinos
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| Quote: rollin thunder "Wakefield, Wigan, St helens population give a or take a few K 100k mark., st helens Wigan double or nearly double Wakefields average.'"
In reality, although reading some of the stuff on here it may not apply to Yorkshire, but, supporting your Rugby team isn't like buying a ticket for the Post Code lottery, apart from it seems in Castleford, Wakefield and Featherstone.
People can and do move about (apart from the above and Royston Vasey) and whilst population might be a good guide to compare attendances and level of support, it's by no means an absolute indicator in fact it's not great at all IMO.
For example, I'm from Warrington, support Warrington, but, live in Salford, boosting one figure diminishing the other (it's also an IQ thing Warrington's average has gone up). The population of Warrington also saw a large increase in population not from a baby boom of ex Wilderspool devotees, but, due to formation of a 'new' town and relative economic success attracting all sorts of folk to the area from Manchester Liverpool and beyond who by and large are a target market than die hard RL fans that can be counted on day one and each and every week.
I do hope that we can attract more fans and accept that we have lost many along the way for one reason or another, the players and game on balance (it's not all perfect) deserve it. My own club should be pulling in another 1,500 per game based on the current set up and level of investment. Unless you're a publican it's disappointing to see rugby fans mostly in tops 'supporting' the team on SKY through the bottom of a beer glass and I understand the maths of £12 for 4 pints and see the game in the warmth rather than £20 plus for standing on a terrace, but, if we want to up the ante on quality we need people through the gate as well as Sky subscribers.
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| Quote: Uncle Rico "
I do hope that we can attract more fans and accept that we have lost many along the way for one reason or another, the players and game on balance (it's not all perfect) deserve it. My own club should be pulling in another 1,500 per game based on the current set up and level of investment. Unless you're a publican it's disappointing to see rugby fans mostly in tops 'supporting' the team on SKY through the bottom of a beer glass and I understand the maths of £12 for 4 pints and see the game in the warmth rather than £20 plus for standing on a terrace, but, if we want to up the ante on quality we need people through the gate as well as Sky subscribers.'"
Agree with all that, and it applies to my team, although getting another 1500 fans through the gates would need a serious overall of facilities whether at Belle Vue or elsewhere. Plus you're spot on, it's extremely disappointing to go into the pubs around Wakefield after a game, especially the last couple of years when we've had decent seasons and they're all sat in their tops having just watched the game, or even more annoying are those that obviously 'support' the team by the eagerness they want to know the score soon as you walk in to pubs, but for one reason or the other have chosen to stay in the pub all night rather than come down and watch the game. We have to develop ways to entice those guys (plus others) to either come back or start coming to games because they obviously have an interest.
I've often said that Wire is a club that Trinity could aspire to copy, with the better stadium and investment came more supporters and then, in turn, more success on the field.
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Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1 | | PLD | F | A | DIFF | PTS |
Wigan |
29 |
768 |
338 |
430 |
48 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Hull KR |
29 |
731 |
344 |
387 |
44 |
Warrington |
29 |
769 |
351 |
418 |
42 |
Leigh |
29 |
580 |
442 |
138 |
33 |
Salford |
28 |
556 |
561 |
-5 |
32 |
St.Helens |
28 |
618 |
411 |
207 |
30 |
|
Catalans |
27 |
475 |
427 |
48 |
30 |
Leeds |
27 |
530 |
488 |
42 |
28 |
Huddersfield |
27 |
468 |
658 |
-190 |
20 |
Castleford |
27 |
425 |
735 |
-310 |
15 |
Hull FC |
27 |
328 |
894 |
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6 |
LondonB |
27 |
317 |
916 |
-599 |
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Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1 | | PLD | F | A | DIFF | PTS |
Wakefield |
27 |
1032 |
275 |
757 |
52 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Toulouse |
26 |
765 |
388 |
377 |
37 |
Bradford |
28 |
723 |
420 |
303 |
36 |
York |
29 |
695 |
501 |
194 |
32 |
Widnes |
27 |
561 |
502 |
59 |
29 |
Featherstone |
27 |
634 |
525 |
109 |
28 |
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Sheffield |
26 |
626 |
526 |
100 |
28 |
Doncaster |
26 |
498 |
619 |
-121 |
25 |
Halifax |
26 |
509 |
650 |
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22 |
Batley |
26 |
422 |
591 |
-169 |
22 |
Swinton |
28 |
484 |
676 |
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20 |
Barrow |
25 |
442 |
720 |
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19 |
Whitehaven |
25 |
437 |
826 |
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18 |
Dewsbury |
27 |
348 |
879 |
-531 |
4 |
Hunslet |
1 |
6 |
10 |
-4 |
0 |
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