That's the point I'm making and that's where I think you're wrong.

Before I start well done for arguing your point sensibly unlike the pathetic so-called moderator.



I'm not directly involved in branding but do have a lot of interaction with it. The reason I mentioned WPP was that I once went to a seminar hosted by them. In a Q&A someone made a point like yours and the top man shot him to pieces. He said 'Design is subjective and no one is right except the end-user (customer). You can throw every so-called rule of design out of the widow because if they like it then it is right, end of'. He said 'the job of a good agency is not to be artistically brilliant or clever or win awards, it's primary role is to save the client from itself and give the customer what it wants'.

I too may have made tweaks to the Trinity badge. However, I have no idea as to what you mean by the implementation which as far as I can tell was spot on.

This is most demonstrated by the fact that Trinity merchandise sale has increased three-fold in four years. Not all due to the name/badge change but its a massive part.

The vast majority of fans love it, not all but you can't please all, they recognise it as Trinity in a way no other name including Wildcats could. Ask Michael Carter, he resisted it at first but fan pressure prevailed and he will tell you it's the best decision he's yet made. I pure cash terms it an extra top player per season,

How on earth can you argue against its implication? As a Trin fan since 2004 I can tell you it's probably the clubs greatest success to date, tragic I know but all the same, it's the truth. You may not like the look but that's purely your opinion and not wanting to be rude it means zilch. Mine means a lot because I'm the sap who buys the stuff and like a huge number of Trinity fans I'm willing to buy far more of it because I like the badge and I love the name. HTH.

From a design perspective, the only thing I'd like to see improved on the new Trinity badge is the typography. It's just a bit too tightly tracked in places. The typeface could also be a bit more minimalistic. Apart from that, I like it.

Well if you've been to a seminar, who am I to argue with that level of experience in designing brands eh! You came out with quit a pithy comment about not getting carried away with myself and being on tricky ground, I would suggest it’s maybe you who is thinking too much of your expertise in Branding when I have been directly involved in creation and implementing brands for 25years.

How on earth can I argue on its implementation? (you’re probably interpretating that incorrectly) look I’m a Designer I think the idea of going back to the Trinity name was a sound one I just think (as in in my opinion) the badge could have been better designed, your man from WPP may agree, why not bob along to another seminar and ask him?


Why are you getting your knickers in a twist over this? You come across as a little angry and seem to be arguing about something you don’t have much experience in.

As for your design agency insight, I am well aware that the proof is in the pudding so to speak and to be a good agency you have to be very commercially aware otherwise you won’t last very long. Awards do mean nothing in the grand scheme of things but I don’t see WPP handing theres back anytime soon.

I could critique the design of the badge and go into detail for you And have a design discussion but I simply haven’t got the inclination to discuss it with you as you come across rather rude to be honest, do you often get involved in arguing on here?

I started this thread as I had a bit of spare time and designing rugby kits was where i first started to fall in love with design and I have been fortunate to be able to make it my career, I didn’t start it to have a forum argument with someone who clearly thinks they know more than they do so I’ll bid you good day.

Yes the Typography could with tweaking, it just seems a bit off and not vey strong. There’s also a disconnect with the outline stroke of the Fleur de lis and the outline of the overall badge holding shape and the small shading part is a bit neither here nor there, I think theres a case for not having it or making it more prominent (Id prefer it flat).

I could be wrong but I haven’t seen any mono flat versions of the logo which any well implemented brand would have.


I’ll caveat all this by saying I’m not having a go at the club or the designer that did it, I appreciate clubs have not got huge budgets for branding and I obviously haven’t been involved in the process so I can’t pass judgment too much on design decisions that were made.


Right I’ve said my piece.

You didn’t just disagree with me you tried to be clever and as condescending (which ill fully admit in my reply I have done the same )

I don’t visit this forum much I take it you have ‘form’?

There's no point debating with him, he wont accept your opinion on trinity and will just shout you down, that's why I said what I said above cos he gave me the hairdryer treatment a few years back when u questioned the way they implemented the name change back to trinity.

We're all wrong, and that final.

It's all very well changing your name to try and leave that reputation behind, but if he's not willing to change the way he aggressively talks down to ppl, you dont need moderator powers to see it's still him.

Anyway, good work Christopher.

As someone who is not a graphic designer, just a spectator, I suggested I thought the Trinity redesign was great, simply because I like a combination of tradition and simplicity. I think that's what most sports fans in the UK want, having not led any focus groups, but having conducted extensive market research 'down the pub'. The American style nicknames and stylised animals are not part of the European tradition. It's no surprise that these badges are highly popular with their own clubs' fans:

Yes I’m a fan of those logos, the Trinity one is not as good due to the things mentioned previous, which was my point, the idea was good but its just not been executed quite right, all IMO of course.

Yes did understand what you mean with the names, I m not a huge fan myself but it cannot be denied it has worked at my club (Leeds)

Oh come on JEAN, everyone knows in 2018 you invented time travel for the sole purpose of journeying back to 2002 to create a login, become a moderator by using subliminal messaging to infiltrate Sadfish's subconcious, all so you could out vastman 18 years later....

All good examples of traditional done modern. The Trinity badge would definitely benefit from being stripped down and minimalised to the level of the Hull KR badge. Obviously, it's not as easy with Trinity having a 3 colour pallete. Maybe it's the third colour which makes the Trinity logo appear fussy?

How great is that Notts Forest badge?!

Great work Christopher, loved seeing your take on the club designs, I don’t understand why clubs manage to make such a mess of it each year.
What would you do with the current Leeds logo?