Interesting to read a few Leeds fans with views like above after they all defended Ryan Bailey when he put his shoulder in Maurie Fa'asavalus face the other year "because he led with the shoulder and therefore it's unintentional and legal"

Technically, the official was right to send Moa off as he did make contact with Rinaldi's head, although it wasn't intentional it is a sending off offense...

However, with some of the tackles that are made every week in SL that are worse than Moa's I think he has possibly been unlucky to see red for that and think referees need to be more consistent across the board with their punishment for certain offenses

It's rugby league FFS, not synchronised swimming.

Should a team get extra points for attractive tackles?

Attacking the head is an offence, hitting the head isn't.

Moa will get found not guilty.

If he is found anything else, including SoS, I would hope the Hull club lodges an appeal and cites the numerous incidents that Morley has been placed on report for over the last four seasons as mitigation.

It may not be attractive but unlike rugby union, it is not illegal to effect a tackle with the shoulder. Phil Clarke called it spot on tonight.

First point, the shoulder charge should never ever be banned. It is a great spectacle in RL.

BUT, should charges to the head should be banned. If it had have been a swinging arm (Like Tommy Lees) no one would have had any complaints, so why is Moa's any different. He has hit Rinaldi high and has knocked him out cold. Thankfully Rinaldi seems to be ok. Moa isn't a dirty player, he just got the shot wrong. Should barges should never be banned, but i don't agree with others argument saying ti should be OK to smash another players head with your shoulder. But shoulder charges should stay,

And if a tackler goes "downstairs" and is hit by the ball carrier's knee, would that too be deemed a "bad hit"?

We'll be playing flag rugby before we know it

Initial impact hit the shoulder and rode up for me. Just unlucky that Rinaldi had stepped and dummied at the time as it made him lower to the ground.

Unintentional. Not first impact. Not red for me. Same as Bailey on Fa'asavalu a few years ago.

The reaction from the London players said it all to me. Not one Broncos player kicked off or ran in. They just saw him get creamed and thought "bloody 'ell!" Now Kaufusi shortly afterwards was an attempt to take someone's head off. Lucky that he barely connected.

Thanks to you tube I just saw it. On first viewing i would have said it was an honest attempt at a shoulder charge, but it went wrong. DIdn't seem like any intent to brain him. However, it did.

Compare it to "eddy pettybourne massive hit on stanley " last night for Souths. See which was worse.

I can tell you that he only was put on report over here for it as refs here are shıt scared to do anything and would prefer to leave it to a judiciary when it would have no outcome on the game it happened in.

At least back home they have the balls to do something.

Initially though, Silverwood gives nothing and when Moa goes to pick up the loose ball, he moves to take up a position in the Bronco's line, but stops on seeing the Rianaldi injury. During the treatment, he stands and watches the video replay and appears to make his decision based on this.

Some were actually patting Moa on the shoulder after the sending off in a conciliatory manner. Having seen the incident several times now, I feel sure Moa wasn't intending to make contact with Rinaldi's head. Rinaldi's body position was the primary cause of the impact being high as opposed to in the chest area.

Love it. Stop being so soft.

It doesn't ride up off the shoulder at all. It goes straight in the side of the jaw, Straight red.

From the video, especially in slow motion I don't think it's correct to blame Rinaldi's body position. Certainly for several strides he seemed to maintain his level. Certainly a nasty high hit but of course the footage can't show intent.

I think shoulder charges should remain legal - nothing wrong with a well-timed charge. But the fact it was a shoulder is irrelevant. This was a solid contact with the player's head which knocked him out cold. Whether Moa intended it or not is immaterial. If a player steps you and you stick an arm out and clothes-line him, then you also get penalised. If there's a swing to the arm, then it's careless and you'll get sent off.

If Moa had been stationary, and Rinaldi ran into him, I suspect it would have been a penalty only. But Moa launched himself forward, so he was fully responsible for where the contact was made. Unluckily for him (and Rinaldi), he got it wrong.

Correct decision. Need a few more of those in my view - we've changed the rules to stop attacks to players legs which could cause injury. There's no more dangerous injury than knocking someone out with an attack to the head, and a few more red cards might encourage a little more care.

The Sky commentators reckon he gave the red on the evidence of the touch judge. I agree it was a red. I have no problem with shoulder charges. I do have a problem with head high tackles that virtually knock someone unconscious. Makes no odds which part of the body is used to smash them in the head.

The one on the Hull player a few minutes later was a grab that definitely hit the shoulder before the head. I agree though it's hard to see things when it's your team involved

Why is it Hull fans are always playing "the victim". I'm suprised the River Hull hasn't overflowed with the amount of tears coming from their fans over the last few weeks on various issues. Silverwood's crap, Leeds nicked Briscoe off us, the ice played a trick on us in France, Ganson cost us the Wire game, Moa's shot was legal, why are we last on Magic saturday at 7pm, on and on and on. They should be sponsored by Pampers the big babies.

I cant agree. I'm not sure what Moa could have done whilst shoulder charging to either bring his shoulder down or really alter its point of impact. Your shoulder is a fairly immobile part of your body It wasnt a high tackle, how can he be high if he hasnt lifted the arm?

It should be clear, either shoulder charges are allowed or they arent, we seem to have a bit of a fudge at the moment. It was unlucky for Rinaldi and had that challenge not knocked him out i doubt it would really be mentioned.

Both missing the point lads, sorry. The only person responsible for the outcome of a tackle is the tackler. The position of the ball carrier and his motions are in no way relevant. The tackler has a duty not to hit the head. If he does, then there's a variety of things to judge - was it light contact (a slap, rather than a smashed forearm) ? Was the first point of contact elsewhere (still a penalty, but mitigates the severity) ? Was there notable intent (see Mick Cassidy's infamous elbow into the face of the ball-carrier from a tap penalty, circa 1996) ? All these things affect the outcome. But the body position of the ball-carrier doesn't.

Moa made the heaviest possible contact, causing unconciousness. The first point of contact, despite what some Hull fans are saying here, was the chin. There was intent to hit hard, even if not necessarily to hit high (it wasn't a wrong-footed slap - Moa moved into the tackle with intent). I think he'll get SoS. Which I think is fair.

At the game I thought it was harsh, but looking back and seeing it, Sam makes first contact just above the shoulder. No intent to harm the player but just going for a big hit. I think a red card was fair in the end.
Glad to see Rinaldi is fine, and was nice of Sam to make sure he was fine before he left the pitch as well.

Nowt wrong with it. Not a red.

Moa did nothing worse than a shoulder barge - nothing but bad luck Rinaldi hit it in the right place to knock him cold. Moa's arm is down, he just leans his weight in. Some collisions are simply so hard the brain is rattled - just a huge impact. He doesn't aim high. he simply goes shoulder-to-shoulder and Rinaldi is the smaller man.

Morley's hit on Hansen was much worse simply because Morley cocked his shoulder/arm and deliberately targeted the head.

Anyway, these things happen. We do NOT want to go down the RU route of insisting arms must be wrapped round - big shots are part of our game and culture and part of what makes RL so fantastic.

The what? FFS.

I don't understand how people can't differentate between a legitimate shoulder charge - i.e. one that hits shoulders or chest - and one that hits someone in the head. Its exactly the same as a tackle with the arms, and you can't hit someone in the face with the shoulder just because it might look good on youtube.

People also seem to forget that it's the tackler who has responsibility to make sure that the way they tackle isn't dangerous. Just because a player is short or changing direction doesn't mean its in some way OK hit them high. The only allowance I'd make is for someone falling/ducking - then it can be very hard for a defender to adjust.

Again, I'll just blow my whistle and dust off my notebook here, but you're missing the point. This red was not about whether it was a shoulder charge or not. Shoulder charges are legal, as are "normal" tackles. And as with normal tackles, the tackler has full responsibility about where and how contact is made. If Moa could not avoid hitting Rinaldi where he did by effecting a shoulder charge, then it was his responsibility not to effect a shoulder charge. He remains responsible.

You should know, as a Leeds fan, that Rob Burrow wins you a lot of penalties for head high shots when blokes who are a good foot taller than him tackle at normal height. If they were hitting a forward, it'd be legal. On Burrow, it's head high. They don't get let off on the grounds he's a short . They just have to judge how to effect a legal tackle. If they can't, then penalty. If they make negligent and serious contact with the head, then sending off. The shoulder charge thing is a red herring, served up, as usual, by the commentary box.

Tackles like this are the reason i Love RL.

This was exactly the same type of hit that Morley put on Hansen a few years back. Im a wigan fan but i have been raving on about that ever since. It was perfectly legal and spectacular to watch.

To compare what happened tonight to Mick Cassidys effort on Moz is a joke. Mick raised the elbow and targeted the chin. Sam Moa is only guilty of putting a peach of a hit on an opponent.

To those calling for a banning of the shoulder barge.

get a grip.

I have been left uncouncious 3 times after contact has been made with my melon, but i would not change the rules for anything. Accidents happen.

It is not the toughest game for nothing.

Yes, of course. We never see any allowances made for players making contact with the head if the attacker is falling or ducking, do we? Moa did everything that could reasonably have been expected to ensure that the tackle wasn't high. His knees are even slightly bent at the point of impact. Unfortunately, Rinaldi's knees were rather more bent. This is not a situation that merits a sending off. If Rinaldi had remained conscious, it would have been a penalty at the most.

What if there is an accidental clash of heads between players?

Should we then send of the defender for not getting his bonce out of the way?