Isn't it just.

That interview gives LH's side of the story, and the rather ill-advised statement from St Helens gives another; the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, and the way this is unfolding, it looks like a court will decide.

I would suggest that the loser in all this will be RL - Flower's actions were indefensible, despite the best efforts of some Wigan fans, and the RFL's response was weak; that could be compounded if it's also found that St Helens didn't act in the players best interests.

I have to agree with smokey here. His career ended wearing a Saints shirt.

THey should have had the decency to support him for a while rather than thinking great he has gone lest save some money.


That is what i would expect from the most callous and heartless employer which does not reflect well on saints.

I and most Giants fans criticised the way they dealt with Keith Mason i genuinley think saints fans should think how this reflects on their club.

It depends who is telling the truth. If Saints pressured Hohaia, a man suffering symptoms of concussion injuries, into playing as he makes out, I agree entirely and would be disgusted at the club. If Saints are right and Hohaia hid any symptoms from them until he decided to take an extended leave, I can fully understand them refusing that, particularly if the scans at the time were not indicating any issues with his health.

I get it, it's a gag in pretty poor taste in that Hohiai now perhaps has a life changing injury.

Players = pieces of meat, very clever you utter turd.

The fact you continue to labour the point, following other posters responses, merely underlines your petty grasp for attention and your utter gormcloptitude.

What do you think that indicates?

Whoever wrote and published it was no PR person, it's a very very angry riposte, that on the face of it seems to state and be very sure that Saints did everything possible to aid LH and did nothing wrong and that he (LH) is a liar.
I rhink it is just that, a heat of the moment angry reply, it just does not do St.Helens rugby club any favours by doing so in that manner. I don't think it's a shout out as loud as we can with implicit denial because we have something to hide type statemwnt but I sure hope that every single point rebuffed is squeaky clean!

Far better to have said something like
We are shocked and dumbfounded by the published article, we gave Lance all the professional support we possibly could and had his physical well being and as importamtly his mental health at the forefront of our minds at all times.
We as a club recognise that our players give their all for us and it is our responsibility to look after them.

We are hoping to speak to Lance directly so we can understand his grievance as we have being totally taken aback by this.
St.Helens club refutes all the allegations made in the article.

Quote: knockersbumpMKII "Whoever wrote and published it was no PR person, it's a very very angry riposte, that on the face of it seems to state and be very sure that Saints did everything possible to aid LH and did nothing wrong and that he (LH) is a liar. I rhink it is just that, a heat of the moment angry reply, it just does not do St.Helens rugby club any favours by doing so in that manner. I don't think it's a shout out as loud as we can with implicit denial because we have something to hide type statemwnt but I sure hope that every single point rebuffed is squeaky clean! Far better to have said something like We are shocked and dumbfounded by the published article, we gave Lance all the professional support we possibly could and had his physical well being and as importamtly his mental health at the forefront of our minds at all times. We as a club recognise that our players give their all for us and it is our responsibility to look after them. We are hoping to speak to Lance directly so we can understand his grievance as we have being totally taken aback by this. St.Helens club refutes all the allegations made in the article.'" Eamonn McManus has since issued a clearer, more professional (albeit still rather outraged) statement: m.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/5793 It does make me wonder who issued the first one, which struck me as poorly written and ambiguous as well as excessively emotive.

Quote: knockersbumpMKII "Whoever wrote and published it was no PR person, it's a very very angry riposte, that on the face of it seems to state and be very sure that Saints did everything possible to aid LH and did nothing wrong and that he (LH) is a liar. I rhink it is just that, a heat of the moment angry reply, it just does not do St.Helens rugby club any favours by doing so in that manner. I don't think it's a shout out as loud as we can with implicit denial because we have something to hide type statemwnt but I sure hope that every single point rebuffed is squeaky clean! Far better to have said something like We are shocked and dumbfounded by the published article, we gave Lance all the professional support we possibly could and had his physical well being and as importamtly his mental health at the forefront of our minds at all times. We as a club recognise that our players give their all for us and it is our responsibility to look after them. We are hoping to speak to Lance directly so we can understand his grievance as we have being totally taken aback by this. St.Helens club refutes all the allegations made in the article.'" Eamonn McManus has since issued a clearer, more professional (albeit still rather outraged) statement: m.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/5793 It does make me wonder who issued the first one, which struck me as poorly written and ambiguous as well as excessively emotive.

It shouldn't matter if he originally hid symptoms from saints. Rugby is a macho sport and players will not want to show weakness, he was probably worried about his future if he admitted to it (turns out he was right to be) and if he was suffering from concussion probably wasn't thinking straight! He will have been under pressure from coaches, teammates etc to play on. Shontayne Hape talked about hiding concussion symptoms for similar reasons.
If a player suggests he has these symptoms then regardless of what any scans say he should be taken seriously- especially given his history that they are aware of regarding the flower incident.
MRI scans do not always show up problems anyway- cell damage is at a microscopic level and won't always be visible and the medical team at saints should know that so to use that excuse is rubbish.
To say because he hid it he should be refused the proper care when he admits his problems is ludicrous.

You've not read any of what I posted have you? Re-read the statements from Hohaia and the club. The club is alleging that Hohaia raised no symptoms between October 14 when he went on holiday after the Grand Final, until the day he resigned as a player. During that time he was assessed for head injury, McManus claims the club have meticulous records of this. Hohaia then demanded to be paid after having resigned. What do you expect them to do in that scenario?

If you resigned from your job, claiming injury caused 7 months prior that you hadn't notified them was bothering you, and demanded that they continue paying you, how successful do you think you would be with that?

If Hohaia is telling the truth, he should have raised his concerns at the time. He should have gone to his Captain, at the time the head of the player's union and asked for help. Failing that he could have gone to the RFL directly. He didn't do any of that and unless a court case uncovers wrong doing on Saints' part, it appears he's just bitter at the club for not paying his remaining contract up, which is a completely unreasonable ask if he hasn't been signed off medically.

And you haven't read anything I've said either.
I've said it shouldn't matter whether he raised it later or immediately- it shouldn't be dismissed. You don't know he "demanded" to be paid. You don't know what the conversation was that led him to hand in his resignation. He says it was play or leave and that's it- so should he have carried on playing knowing there was something amiss which hadn't been picked up by scans?
Yes he probably should have brought it up prior- but I've given many reasons why he- and players in similar situations haven't done so. If saints is so unapproachable then that in itself tells a story.
And yes- if I'd have sustained a serious injury at work that prevented me from continuing then I would expected to be compensated for it!!!!! He probably hoped the symptoms would stop and hed be fully recovered- that clearly didn't happen. The fact it was 7 months prior and he was still experiencing problems suggests it's serious!
And of course he's bitter- why wouldn't he be! It's not his fault he had to retire, it's not his fault he sustained concussive injuries.
We should be looking after the players who put their bodies through the ringer not dismissing them. These guys end up with hip replacements in their 30s! Knee and back problems from middle age,
They aren't inanimate objects to be discarded when their parts don't function because of misuse!

According to BBC Sport website LH has clarified his remarks to make it clear that he has no criticism of the medical staff at Saints, his criticism lies with management. Suggests to me that medically Saints followed professional protocols in terms of making sure he got proper treatment but despite that he felt he could no longer continue his career.

Reading between the lines he may have expected them to pay up his contract and they were reluctant to do that without firm medical grounds that he was unfit to continue playing. I would imagine that if there were firm medical grounds for retirement this would never have happened as insurance would have been in place to cover the cost of paying up the contract.

So we're in a difficult situation, it's perfectly reasonable that LH would want to quit if he feared long term ill effects from his condition, you cannot get your health back once it is seriously compromised. On the other hand it is reasonable for his employer not to want to pay him off on medical grounds if those medical grounds haven't been sufficiently proven. I genuinely believe LH has problems caused by the physical effects of a long and tough career, including the Flower incident, but at same time it would be a difficult precedent for clubs if veteran players (possibly on good contracts) had the right to be paid up early because they didn't feel able to continue but the medical case hadn't been proven.

And we still will not know if those protocols were sufficient unless it comes out in a court case.

LH himself is not qualified to know, it's also not just about scans either, if you have a player shying off and you know them, also know what has happened previously and that medical scans/investigation haven''t (so far) revealed anything, then either the player is making up excuses (lying about his symptoms as a reason not to play) or there is another issue that has not being mentioned by the player.
This could possibly be psychological as well as physiological stuff not found by the scans.

Just because a particular investigation/scan doesn't show up an issue being described by a person (or not mentioned at all) it doesn't mean it does not exist. By definition of what saints have admitted there was still a problem, was it really that dfficult to understand that LH was (by his statement) still sufferin? Even if he wasn't saying directly, his own actions and demeanor alone would have being enough to flag up something was still wrong I would have thought.

it looks like Saints didn't know what else to do after following their protocols and thought they had done everything and it was shape up or ship out and LH shipped out.

Whatever the outcome I still think because there is this expectation of players to batter themselves week in, week out that we need to understand that they are still just human beings with the same mental frailties as everyone else, still worry about their own well being and future for themselves and their families.

IMHO the salary cap has a hand in this, the lack of having big enough squads and at times having to ask players to play through injury because of lack of depth and that win at all costs mentality can lead to players having longer term life injuries and/or early retirement.

A geeater understanding of this particular group of people (male sportsmen in a very macho environment) so that it's easier for them to come forward without fear, embarrassment or shame from their own friends and team mates when something is wrong is required in all sports with this group, not just RL.