When Henry Tudor took the throne and married Elizabeth of York he combined the embalms. The actual English rose is a red rose with a smaller white rose at the centre.

Once again a forum poster comes up with a better design than the experts. The top left is great. You could probably do away with England Rugby League.

Once again a forum poster comes up with a better design than the experts. The top left is great. You could probably do away with England Rugby League.

To be fair I own my own Graphic Design Business so I would probably be classed as an 'expert' but I still don't think those I did are that good they could be a lot better given more time.

To be fair to the agency that did it as with most things it will have been designed by committee and probably not what they would have wanted to go with, it's usually clients that ruin designs but they pay the bills.

These are all better to be fair, but the top left is very good.Few tweaks and it could look amazing.

I love top right... i think the Red really stands out and is different yet traditional and most importantly professional.

Whilst I accept there are bigger problems facing modern RL. I think most people agree that in terms of the bigger picture International RL is the way to spear head the games expansion in this country (not relying on failing outpost franchises). England RL as a successful brand (with a great crest and shirt etc...) is crucial to this plan. The beauty of the England 1st XIII is that anyone can get behind them whether you live in Wigan or Weymouth , London or Leigh ! Small things like the crest/logo do really count!

Yep, and I think it's good to get the 1895 reference on there too. To remind/inform people we've been around for a while!

I don't like the 1895 being on there, lets face it, England didn't play a RL game until 1904, and many of the RL clubs were around 20 years before 1895.

1895 only has reference as a breakaway year to me.

interesting point about 1895 you can see that year as positive year or a negative i personally think it doesn't need it but i like the idea of a 1st XIII on there - i think the roman numerals tells you that it is a traditional game played with pride without bringing in the great schism.

I love the red one!

Ditch England.

I shouldn't do this, but go on, I'm dying to hear the reasoning behind this.

Any of those would do for me.

rlhttps://picasaweb.google.com/105145528648611530307/November30201303#5951902895413100674rl

This is rough, but my idea