if the RFL and the Bulls had a loan agreement in place, and presumably a repayment schedule - how could the RFL then demand sudden repayment? surely there was payment terms - and therefore the RFL cant just demand full repayment.

Come on Adey - If this is the true story, and we don't know, why does any bank or creditor call in their overdraft/loan on any company? For one main reason, they are at their limit or even over exposed and have grave doubts about the ability of said company to pay back their debts going forward! They also know this might lead to them getting little or no money back, but they can see no other way of forcing the issue and don't want to expose themselves for further or longer!

It is not rocket science is it!

However, this is a company and a sports club, so the BOD have taken the oppotuinity to emotionally blackmail the key ingredient that set them apart from most other companies... fans!

So, what better way to cover your own backside and poor management by getting the fans to pay your debt for you!

Come on Addy, wake up and smell the coffee... you have £100k there that has been pledged that Bullbuilder as a trust company could quickly turn from pledges to the club into money into an escrow account hled by Bullbuilder. Given that Andrew Glover bought Wakey, who owed out £700k, from O'Hara for £35k, I reckon Bullbuilder could have the club off the adminstraor for less than £100k. Raise the £500k and you have a nice little sum to keep the club going for a few months while you sweet talk some investors... if of course a new buyer, like Andrew, does not step in and beat Bullbuilder to it.

I think Bullbuilder and other prominent fans need to grow some balls... and quick!

Not if they default...

There’s bits I don’t understand here Adey.



You say that Bradford borrowed £700k in 2011, you then go on to say they didn’t pay the RFL back from the sale?

Sale of what, it was a loan at that time, wasn’t it?



How can the RFL require the loan repaid in the last few weeks, I was under the impression, with the purchase of Odsal, the RFL had recouped the loan & given the club the difference between the alleged £700k & whatever the final price they paid (1.2 – 2.0M) for the lease?

I just told you that I know - for an absolute fact, since it was a senior RBS official who told me - that RBS has for some time had no appetite for lending to RL clubs. Whether them taking the opportunity of a one-off cash receipt to pursue that policy is what actually happened seems to me credible, but only the parties involved will know for sure.

And don't you bloody well lecture me about growing balls. If I (and a number of others on the BB Board) had a shedload of time on our hands, Yes we probably WOULD look at wider options. But we don't We are working our balls off on our own accounts as it is, in our day jobs and businesses. We discussed precisely this last night, and concluded justy that. If others with more time and the necessary expertise want to come on board and pick this up and run with it, we would welcome them with open arms. As it is, we still have Board positions available because that so far has not been the case.

No better to be fair.

If what you say is correct (and it looks more than likely),

1) the existing set up got them into such a ty mess at the end of 2011 they needed £700k from the RFL at their most flush time of the year.
2) on that £700k loan the club met few if any of the repayments and as a result were forced to sell the only asset they had.
3) The lease sale left them with £500k they never anticipated so that doesn't count as part of the profitable, debt free future the board told you.
4) Their financial plan was either a lie, wrong or at best naive to the extent that whoever drew it up shouldn't be in business in the first place.
5) they have lost all their plannes money & the additional £500k with the excuse that the bank overdraft has cocked them up.
6) the latest report suggests it's a tax bill that has stuffed them
7) Peter Hood is still a lying ehouse that should not be allowed near the sport.

Sale of the Odsal lease, end of December 2011.

I was told the RFL had originally agreed that the loan need not be repaid out of the sale proceeds, but at a later date (which was told to me). This is either true or false. Without seeing the documentation intelf, I have to rely on what I am told - and indeed on what the Chairman has said in the public domain. In this, I assumed that if he was lying then the RFL would have issued a statement to that effect.

Why the proceeds were not paid net is unclear to me. Again, without seeing the documentation I have to rely on being assured (and for the above reason) that that was teh case.

And, to me the single biggest unanswered question in this whole affair, is how - and why - the RFL was able to call in now a loan that was supposedly repayable much later. This is the ONE big issue that simply does not stack up to me. And it is one we are trying to obtain some clarity regarding. Because if the agreement was simply a gentleman's agreement, and the club did not have a contingency plan in place for if the circumstances changed (e.g. RFL not receiving a load of expected cash from a major sponsor, just payment in kind...??) then that would be prima facie gross negligence. With all the consequences that entails.

But we get ahead of ourselves; shooting any culprits now will not save the club.

So by the sound of it, Bradford borrowed £700k at the beginning of 2011 for whatever reason.

They didn’t pay anything back on said loan for the rest of that year, they were then under the impression that the RFL bought the lease for, let’s say £1.5M, but the £700k loan was still owed as well.

So in affect they would have received £2.2M from the RFL & be able pay back the loan at their convenience.

Now I’m no great lover of the Red Hall lot, however, that’s a fair bit of cash out of the coffers, to throw at an ailing club.

There's a load of unnecessarily complicated nonsense being talked about the Bradford situation, with an uncomfortable dollop of sentiment and guilt-inducing histrionics thrown in for good measure.

The top and bottom of it is thus; the Bradford BoD have been spinning plates for a good while, in an attempt to continue spending way beyond their means. Just like in any business, that can only be sustained for a limited period of time and it would appear that in Bradford's case, that time has come to an end; Peter and Paul have got their heads together and worked out the scam.

It beggars belief that in response, the business themselves, the governing body, stars of the game and the media are rallying round, asking the 'RL family' to bail out the club (again) to the tune of £1 million; they didn't do that for any other club and nor should they - Bradford fans are being emotionally blackmailed, fleeced out of their hard-earned cash and if they hand more money to an incompetent BoD, will more than likely find themselves subjected to another begging campaign in the not too distant future.

Giving the incumbent BoD an escape route is absolute folly in my view, and I'm baffled that so many people appear to have been taken in.

What was the original 700k for, to help them over the Harris saga ?

Because, after a load of soul-searching, we concluded that it was unlikely that administration would produce the sort of happy outcome that you enjoyed. we concluded that - at best - we would be looking at a Crusaders-type situation.

And, in the time frame, we don't have anything like enough time to put together an alternative of our own.

I think most of us would rather take a punt on retaining our place in SL than watching Bradford Northern (2012) play Gateshead in front of a few hundred at Horsfall "Stadium".

I would consider that conclusion flawed, as I don't believe that the RFL would let Bradford implode to the dramatic extent you've described. At worst, you'll enter administration and rise like a phoenix from the flames, having shed all debts, a load of incompetent senior officials and possibly, a few players. You then begin a period of rebuilding, with a 3 year plan to repair the damage, restore confidence and never spend beyond your means again.

It was far from a happy outcome at WTW by the way - last season was a bleeding nightmare.

How do you rise from the flames with no cash? What do you use to pay the players, phoenix feathers?

Wakey had a benefactor, there is no certainty the Bulls will.

Exactly.

There was no certainty we would, yet I don't recall an RFL endorsed whip-round to preserve us, nor the Sky Sports team suggesting that SL without WTW was 'unthinkable.'

In fact, we did have the opportunity to be purchased by someone with massive resources at his disposal, but the RFL wouldn't give him sufficient assurances to maintain his interest.

If Bradford fans are in a giving mood, they should put the money they're pledging in escrow and offer it to whomever buys the club out of admin as seed money.

To be honest, that all just sounds like a bit of jealousy that more people are bothered about the Bulls going bust than they were about WTW.



Who, and what specific assurances did he want?



Again, you're assuming someone buys it.

Not jealousy, just a level playing field from the governing body.



He wanted a guarantee of a three year licence.




If the price is right, someone will come in.

We discussed that possibility at the Bullbuilder board meeting last night.

We have a week. Five working days now.

Many have already pledged.

There is no time to set up the necessary arrangements and protections. Not least because we have limited resources, not least our time!

All we would achieve, at this point, is diverting some of the pledge money (a few tens of thousands at best). We'd then be the bad guys for bringing the club down, if we did, and ostracised if the pledge succeeded anyway.

Would Ste O'connor pay into an Escrow rather than the club? The players and numerous others who have pledged? No chance.

Why are the RFL endorsing this? Could it be because it was their calling in the loan early (however that arose and regardless of the nature of whatever was prevuioulsy agreed) that precipited this crisis?

As we said in our press release last night, the Bulls situation is unique. And, with respect, its on a larger scale than Wakey's was and with a far shorter timescale between first indications of crisis and D-Day.

And we have no indications at all of anyone with a rugby interest at heart being in the least bit interested in taking over the club.

Is this fact? Does anybody actually know the terms of this loan and whether the RFL deviated from them?

I find it incredibly difficult to believe.

Adey, just clarify a couple of thing for me, if you can.

When did the RFL lend Bradford the alleged £700k & how much of it had been paid off prior to the buying of the lease?

No, we don't. That is the crux of all this.

I've said elsewhere, the circumstances of the RFL requiring repayment when they did, and the extent to which the club could and should have factored such a possibility into its planning, seems absolutely central to this whole disaster. It seems to have been the first domino...which tripped the bank domino and the last domino just fell on the fans.

It must be factual that the RFL required the loan to be repaid earlier than the club "expected" because Hood has said that in the media and (unlike RBS) there has been no rebuttal whatsoever.

The first thought that went through my mind was that the RFL had given the Bulls an understanding that the loan need not be repaid until x date (I have been told a date), but that that was not binding just a gentleman's agreement. And then, when the RFL failed to secure a monetary sponsorship for 2012, they found themsleves a bit short of cash themselves... but I stress that is 100% speculation on my part.

But you are spot on - this looks to be the crucial issue, and could explain why Hood told us all it was fine in january, and yet tells us we are now two weeks off being fish food.

And it goes without saying, I suggest, that if it transpires that the board was reckless or negligent in their understanding of the terms of the RFL loan then heads must roll.

But that will not save the club right now.

Dunno and dunno, is the simple answer.

The charge in favour of the RFL was put in place in Jan 2011, which suggests that was when the first advance was made. My guess is that none has been repaid, but that is just a guess.

We do not know for certain, even, that it was £700k.

But we have asked for an urgent meeting with the baord, and you can guess what one of the key questions will be.

Shame is your too damned thick to realise that the bull they feed you is just that, I used to think you where ok now I see you as a bit deranged!

This is ironic on so many levels.

So wha bull am I believing then?