Unfortunately the amateur rugby you’re alluding to may wither on the vine as I stated in my initial post.

Yes, the memory of WTW will die for the next generation of young players, however, quite a few local set-ups may also go to the wall.

The parents / grandparents of a kid in Eastmoor, for instance, may not want to trail to Cas, or Leeds to take his son / grandson for training sessions & matches.

What do you think would happen if (theoretically) a club like Wigan were erased from the master Plan? Would all the superb talent produced happily play in the Red V, would the depth of amateur clubs continue around the town, if the said town no longer had a top class team?






I suppose that constitutes a list, but, there’s hardly a Gaz Ellis or a Benny Westwood in there.

Your ambitious vision for the future of the game outside the heartlands is commendable, but once again, you’ve failed to tell who’s going to foot the bill?

London’s philanthropist won’t be around for ever, and I see no Knight in Shining Armour coming to the aid of the Welsh project. So, as it’s the Red Hall dream, do you expect the RFL to foot the bill?

Really? you think that Amateur Rugby in Wakefield will go to the wall if Wakefield are relegated? how many new amatuer clubs are there in Wakefield since 1999?

Hasnt there been a club in Eastmoor since 1881? You really think the team would fold because there is now only one SL club in the district and 4 semi-pro clubs?

Yes, I believe if there were only one SL club in the Metropolitan District of Wigan they would still play RL in Wigan. Similarly if there was only one club in the metropolitan district of Wakefield, they would still play RL in Wakefield.


There's hardly a hundred year old amateur set up in London. In that context, and in the context of a comparison to areas with a similar histories and amateur set ups Wakefields history of youth development is nothing to be proud of.

Whose footing the bill now? Who foots the bill if Glover walks out? Who foots the bill if Paul Caddick walks out or Ian Lenegan?

I think you will find that currently the 2 areas which produce the best players are the Wigan area and the Wakefield area. Now include Castleford as being in the Wakefield area and I think it is fair to say that neither Cas or Wakey have the best facilities so I think that ruins your argument that facilities play a role in it.

What evidence do you have to back up your premise that the 2 areas which produce the best players are the Wigan and Wakefield areas? There a couple of clubs who produce a similar amount of players to Wigan, and a fair amount who produce more than Wakefield.

I think messes Noble, Davies and Kear had it right when disscusing the franchises. Davies especially calling for Quinns to be given the chop.

I never said which clubs brought the players through, I stated the areas where they came from. If you take the area where the players in Super League came from the two most represented would be the Wakefield Met area and the Wigan area.

Would it? As I said, where is your evidence for this?

And you do realise that this argument doesnt address the argument you thought it did dont you? The fact is the clubs with the best facilities, coaches, scouts and pathways bring through the best players.

Please provide evidence of this fact. Please put on here a linear graph showing the correlation between "the best facilities" and the "best players". I suggest you do one graph per "facility". I'm not interested in excercise bikes - just stick to buildings and people. Off you go. You have three hours.

Why would we allow you to define 'facilities' for me

There is no evidence. The fact that top international players like Gaz Ellis, Ben Westwood and Danny Brough just to name a few came through the Wakefield youth system which clearly does not have great facilities proves your point.

Danny Brough has never played a top tier international, by definition he isnt a top international player.

So your argument that Wakefield are one of the top two areas at producing talent in SL is they have produced Ellis, Westwood and Brough, as opposed areas like Leeds which has produced the likes of Carvell, Mcguire, Diskin, Hall, Smith, Ablett, JJB, Walker, and Peacock or Merseyside which has produced Graham, Roby, Wellens, Cunningham, or the masses of players from Greater Manchester and Cumbria?

Smokey, I haven’t got the will to dissect each paragraph, you believe that if W.T.W were cast into the abyss the grass roots systems would stay in place ad infinitum. Whereas I believe the opposite, & only time will tell who is correct.

You side-swiped the theoretical question re: Wigan.

If the Wigan club were banished from the top table, you really believe the lads from the feeder clubs would play for St Helens, I find that preposterous.

Wakefield’s history in youth development is nothing to be proud of? It’s been a conveyor belt of talent for Leeds for many years.

Regarding your question of who’s footing the bill, I presume you mean the Welsh project, to be honest, I haven’t got a clue. I know last year it was Red Hall, not sure about this season, maybe the avid expansionist on here could have a whip-round. The next three years, well, they could become a team challenging for the G.F with a Wembley appearance under their belts, with attendances rising to 8,000. Or they may continue buying bargain basement players, bumping along the bottom, generating even less supporters & going bust, crystal ball time…

If we’re both alive & kicking in ten years, I would like to revisit the outcome, to apologise, or, await yours.

Crusaders have to be the ones to go.
1. Awful attendances.
2. Bottom of SL 2/3 years.
3. Awful financial management.
4. Not really and 'expansion' team now they are located in Wrexham.