At the risk of sounding like I am defending the decision or the RFL (neither of which I agree with), I do know that Sport England put a lot of emphasis on access to education and quality of facilities and coaching. The RFL additionally put a lot of emphasis on geographical distribution for the sake of the community game. I don't know the Bradford situation but it is entirely possible that during the financial collapses either coaching personal or facilities were degraded? The problem we all have is that it feels like the RFL go out of their way to be as opaque and obtuse as possible, and expect to be able to announce these decisions from on high without any challenge or explanation. IMG seem to be taking this to extremes judging by the "vote" on Wednesday, without even giving the clubs sight on what they're voting on.

The counter argument to the historic production line at Bradford is were now seeing that talent come through at Wakefield with Murphy, Shaw, Bowes, Esah(sp?), Aydin coming through - whose to say if they had come through 15 years ago they wouldnt be on Bradfords books?

That's the million dollar question. I would say based on your response that its about as frequent top clubs poaching junior talent as it is top clubs losing players to RU/ NRL (again not data driven, just going off the conversation we have here) so the poaching argument holds no water - and I suspect that will be a recurring theme of these conversations; every time one of the reasons for not investing time/energy/money in the academy model which certain clubs trot out just doesn't hold.

I fear there is no quick fix. Clubs trying to shortcut have effectively given a few teams over a decades headstart and I dont know how you can erase that without a) damaging the good work the triopoly do and b) without significant investment

I suppose we'll have to wait until their "Golden Generation" retire, similar to what happened at Leeds.

But if St's were to plummet in the same manner, the town would be on suicide watch.

But, in fairness, I’m advocating a restructure in which there’d be a much stronger player pathway with a number of traditional clubs providing part-time stepping stones to a smaller number of new big teams who would benefit from all the things the current big teams and their fans advocate. It’s a recognition and acceptance that there is no easy fix, or perhaps any fix at all as things stand, and that to have more competitive teams substantial sacrifices would have to be made.

I think your point about investing time, energy and money is interesting, and I’d love to know more about why Hull KR and some other clubs have struggled so badly in this area in terms of effort vs competency. However, it comes back to the old Saints/Wigan/Leeds have great cultures thing. I’m a great believer in culture, it trumps strategy etc. And I accept that those clubs do have strong cultures. But it feels like that is sometimes used to close down debate around other structural issues, and plans that don’t start and finish with a focus on youth development in the Saints et al. model.

Sadly it already is one of the country’s suicide “hotspots”. Genuinely.

You will be waiting a long time. In Dodd and Welsby they have 2 world class halfbacks for many years to come along with a once in generation talent full back, Harry Robertson that every single top SL club wanted but hes a Saints fan. They then also have Delaney who will be the second best prop in the country after Lees in a couple of years.

SL debut in 2008. Played for Cas Tigers vs Cas Lock Lane in the CC as a 16 year old in 2007.

Totally and utterly correct.


Saints essentially fielded an academy side v Cas in April and I think the game finished 30 10. Our first team scraped past a bunch of youngsters but they're very good youngsters who some will be the next generation at saints some will drip into lower leagues. But you aren't talking 1 or 2 good young players you're talking 10-15 from 1 batch and that conveyorbelt continues and continues. Same with leeds and wigan.

Saints can afford to lose star (barba coote etc) players because their kids are damn good now and will only get better.

Teehee, this is what the arrogant sliver of fans of all clubs who are at the top think just before the rot sets in.

The realist (smarter) majority know that good times never last forever.

The draft academy system was one proposed many years ago when a certain rugby union player was heavily involved in our sport at that level. The RFL were all for it, saw it as a way of strengthening all clubs. A sports scientist friend of mine was involved in some trials with the RFL looking at how young players are developed from a S & C perspective and was involved in discussing how this system would be set up.
The system went to vote and Leeds, saints, wigan and Bradford (that’s how long ago this was) we’re massively against the idea (can’t imagine why ) and there was talk of clubs threatening to pull out if this was forced upon them.

I disagree
The key to success is to have more players coming into the system and receiving quality coaching and guidance to help them improve.
It's all a numbers game and of course, money.
Those who can invest most into both recruitment of and keeping hold of the best young players should prosper most often and to be fair to Leeds, Wigan and Saints, plus, Bradford in the early days, those clubs have manged to do this better than the other clubs.
However, as we've seen with say, Warrington and Leeds for the last couple of years, you need a decent coach.
Money alone cant buy success but, it certainly helps.
It's the same in every sport and perhaps the reason that we've had other clubs at least make the final, perhaps shows how a salary cap can be effective, up to a point.

Speculative, but from the Leeds board

Cator is a different, though very admirable, case imo - in that he was never the great red and white hope that Taylor briefly was and Lewis is.

If we do end up having to sell Lewis in a couple of years, the consolation that I (alone) would take is that it might mean that there’d be more openness to innovative ideas rather than replicating approaches of a couple of clubs that have very different circumstances.