Wrong again! It is a fact... not an opinion. It's been verified consistently over and over again that NRL players are better athletes and superior in skill. We can look at the evidence and history and determine this to be a fact. If you disagree then it's quite clear you misunderstand, a long with most the English language, the meaning of fact.



Are you smoking that , brother? I just told you Graham is one of the best players in the world and Merrin is a joke. Why are you saying "Graham isn't a little better, he is comfortably better", as if to suggest I've said anything to the bloody contrary? You show you ignorance to the Australian game by even citing Merrin, a player universally rejected by NSW fans as a ridiculous pick, a long with several other Dragons players.

Also lol at Peacock and Carvell! They'd struggle to make the bloody team sheet in the NRL. It's 2011 mate, Peacock is only 5 years from a walking stick. Mannah is better than both, put together.



Are you even reading what I'm saying? I've established your comprehension isn't the best but you seem to be flat out ignoring what I've said.

Heremaia is garbage. His presence in the grand final is worthless. His nickname at the Warriors is HereMUD, because he plays like . That Roby is better than him is erroneous. Heremaia is unwanted in the NRL.

Roby is not better than Friend, either, lol. While he might be better than Mara at this present time, who in their right ing mind would want Roby over Mara? One will go on to greatness, the other will be remembered by a couple of SL fans.

There is no flaw in my argument. If Roby was any good he'd be in the NRL. Buderus the pensioner is rated more highly outside of England - You think that's an argument in your favour? It highlights what I've been saying all along! Past their sell by date, average SH players are above supposedly the best SL players.

I'm constantly astounded by the delusions of SL fans. You're blinded by patriotism to such an extent that you're physically unable to accept we're inferior in almost every way!

They make sense, however clunky. Again we're back to the original issue... You're unable to read.



A footnote IS one word, what are you on about?

You're off your bloody head mate. It was clear, to anyone with a set of eyes, that I was speaking in generalities. You're being silly now. What kind of idiot would say that every single NRL player is better than ever single SL player? You know full well I was speaking in generalities, if you don't you're insane.

Me saying "NRL players have more skill and are more athletic than SL players" in no way means that every NRL player is better than every SL player. I shouldn't have to clarify! I said nothing to even suggest that I felt every NRL player was superior in said criteria to every SL player - Nothing, at all.

I'm dealing here with a bunch of halfwits who are grasping at straws because you were unable to argue a successful case for the athleticism of SL players, so purposely derailed the argument.

I don't have to pretend to be anything, I am a professional writer... Writing is my profession.




Are you ing crazy bro? Throughout this argument you've accused me of saying that EVERY NRL player is better than EVERY SL player. We wouldn't be having this ing debate if not for you intellectual-dwarfism!

That’s twice now that you have used the word erroneous when I’m pretty sure you meant irrelevant Are you sure that people pay you to write? Quote ="r a n c i d"Heremaia is garbage. His presence in the grand final is worthless. His nickname at the Warriors is HereMUD, because he plays like poop. That Roby is better than him is erroneous. Heremaia is unwanted in the NRL. '" viewtopic.php?f=2&t=510157&p=16496924&hilit=erroneous#p16496924 Quote ="r a n c i d"Mate, are you taking the mickey? I'll tell you now as a fact that Petero is more Australian than Reed will ever be English. Place of birth is erroneous. Your argument is okay for people switching allegiances as adults, but are you seriously trying to say someone raised in a country from the age of TWO shouldn't be allowed to represent that nation? Your post isn't just moronic, it's downright offensive. Most Australians would laugh in your face at the suggestion Petero isn't an Aussie! What the hell is wrong with you? '"

That’s twice now that you have used the word erroneous when I’m pretty sure you meant irrelevant Are you sure that people pay you to write? Quote ="r a n c i d"Heremaia is garbage. His presence in the grand final is worthless. His nickname at the Warriors is HereMUD, because he plays like poop. That Roby is better than him is erroneous. Heremaia is unwanted in the NRL. '" viewtopic.php?f=2&t=510157&p=16496924&hilit=erroneous#p16496924 Quote ="r a n c i d"Mate, are you taking the mickey? I'll tell you now as a fact that Petero is more Australian than Reed will ever be English. Place of birth is erroneous. Your argument is okay for people switching allegiances as adults, but are you seriously trying to say someone raised in a country from the age of TWO shouldn't be allowed to represent that nation? Your post isn't just moronic, it's downright offensive. Most Australians would laugh in your face at the suggestion Petero isn't an Aussie! What the hell is wrong with you? '"

firstly it's along, not a long. Secondly, no it is subjective and therefore an opinion. If you can state it as determinable fact maybe you can provide us all with your objective measure for athletic ability and the comparitive results?

A player Ricky Stuart thought among the best 4 props available to him. If the NRL was filled with supermen as the image you are trying to paint, a player so average as Merrin, who would struggle to get a game at a top SL club wouldnt be playing SoO.

If you want to believe that fine. Its nonsense but its your opinion and you are welcome to it.

Thats a very strange conclusion.

Yet he is an NRL regular. Now think it through, what does that tell us about how good you need to be to be an NRL regular? And what does it also tell us about the many Hookers in SL who are comfortably better than him?Success is quite a good measure of quality. witty lot arent you. Do you know what erroneous means? If so, those are two pretty random statements to put together.

Who would take a better player over an inferior player? Anybody who wanted to put out the best team they could at a guess.

There is a flaw in your argument. I've already told you what it is. The flaw in your argument is that it is circular. Buderus the pensioner, past his sell by date, average SH player will be playing in the NRL next season. Not SL. It seems odd that your league of supermen would need to take an average SH player who is past his sell by date doesnt in? except average SH player, past his sell by date, Buderus the pensioner isnt the best hooker in SL. He isnt above the best hookers in SL.
If we were inferior in almost every way I would accept it. But we arent, we are simply not quite as good as 2 teams who are very good. We have some very very good players, some world class players, just not enough of them.

I've come to the conclusion that rancid is a bit of a troll, and probably better known by a different user name usually...

Mate, you're a moderator, run an IP test if you're going to make those sorts of claims.

I certainly am unable to read this sentence "Don't try to spin your clutching-at-straws - failing, in your efforts, I might add - as illiteracy on my behalf." Even if we assume that you missed out a comma in the first part, got the your/you're mixed up and you wanted to say "don't try to spin, you're clutching at straws" and we make that part make sense, WTF does "failing in your efforts, I might add- as illiteracy on my behalf" mean?
Yes, the word footnote is one word. Not two words. Its not a difficult concept, i cant believe you needed it explaining to you twice.

Yes I know now you are speaking generalities. Because you have said so. Now this may blow your mind, but people cant read your thoughts. You need to express them. If you dont say something we dont know you are thinking it, and if you dont say what you are thinking people dont know that, we only know what you say.

Considering you havent qualified the statement it neither means all, some, or in general. As someone pretending to be a professional writer you should be aware of that.


No, you arent. That much is clear.


Then im sure you can find a quote where I have done this. The good thing about a messageboard is the messages are still there. Go find a post where I accuse you of saying that every NRL player is better than every SL player.

It's a fact, would you like a link to the many dictionary websites on the internet? If NRL players weren't better athletes with a superior skill set we wouldn't get our kicked, year in, year out... Would we?

Also I don't care if it's a long or along. I could tear your English in seven if I were petty enough.



Merrin would WALK into a SL team. The reason he played SOO is because Stuart is a halfwit. We can point to any number of moronic inclusions he made, there are many. You seem to think that by pointing out one or 2 exceptions that it somehow disproves that NRL players are on the whole superior to SL players. You're engaging in absolute fallacy.



It's not just my opinion, it's the opinion of every NRL club! Nobody wants either player at their club, they're distinctly average, with no upside.



An NRL regular? He's a bloody journeyman, brought in as a last resort. You seem to think that arguably the worst hooker in the NRL is some sort of marker! Let me tell you, being better than Heremud does not make you a quality NRL player. Roby and anyone else you can care to name would absolutely struggle to find a home in the NRL.

If English SL hookers were rated they would be in the NRL, right now.



And that tells us all we need to know about the two competitions, doesn't it. SL is sub par and teams stock their ranks with foreigners to send out the best they possibly can. In the NRL they nurture and blood rookies with upside.

Roby does not warrant the money you think he's worth, which is, AGAIN, the reason nobody has signed him. He'll forever by relegated to the 2nd division that is the SL.

A team is not made by 1 player. The Warriors made the finals without genuine . The Warriors made the finals with a hooker. Why? Because we had the talent throughout the team to more than make up for it.

Who in their right mind would splash out on someone as distinctly average as Roby at the extent of their team proper. He's hardly a bloody game breaker is he?





No.



Nobody needs to take Buderus. There is no demand for Buderus. Bennett wants Buderus and Wayne is the worlds best coach who can take nobodies like Merrin and make them world beaters.

What seems odd to me is that the Buderus has been taken by a team in the worlds best competition, yet nobody wants Roby, or anyone else you care to mention.

You can point to as many 30 year old Australians as you want, the fact is they're getting picked over Englands best talents. Tell me, please, how many 33 year old English players are in the NRL?

The NRL is head and shoulders above the SL and everyone but you can see it!



Who cares? The SL is a semi-pro competition and most blokes come over here to double-up their retirement. I imagine it's disheartening to go from a superstar of the game to playing in front of old men in flat caps.

You seem to think this is some sort of argument in your favour? All it shows is that NRL teams would rather resign discarded has beens than take the supposed cream of the crop English players.



Not quite as good? Synonymous with inferior. It doesn't matter the margin, we're inferior, not quite as good, whatever you want to call it.

We have maybe 6 world class players.

Erm, no. I meant YOUR. 'Don't try to your you're clutching-at-straws as illiteracy on my behalf' doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.







What the are you talking about? of course it's one word, you idiot! Where have I said otherwise?



I don't need to state that I was speaking in generalities, it was blatantly obvious. You know damn well that's what I was doing, but went out of your way to misunderstand my comments to change the parameters of the debate to the bull we're talking about now.



You ing imbecile. When I say "NRL players are more athletic than SL players", that's a general statement, I don't need to add disclaimers because you cannot read.



Alright, boss.



I can't, so I apologise and take back that claim. I thought that you had, but you hadn't.

Quote ="Dunbar":38jglmvtThat’s twice now that you have used the word erroneous when I’m pretty sure you meant irrelevant Are you sure that people pay you to write? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=510157&p=16496924&hilit=erroneous#p16496924 '" :38jglmvt I meant erroneous. er·ro·ne·ous (-rn-s) adj. Containing or derived from error; mistaken

Quote ="Dunbar":38jglmvtThat’s twice now that you have used the word erroneous when I’m pretty sure you meant irrelevant Are you sure that people pay you to write? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=510157&p=16496924&hilit=erroneous#p16496924 '" :38jglmvt I meant erroneous. er·ro·ne·ous (-rn-s) adj. Containing or derived from error; mistaken

Did it not occur to you that only a small minority of players need to be better than a small minority of our players to result in us getting our booty kicked? If Cam Smith is the best hooker in the world and James Roby the 2nd then this would still result in Smith being better if we used that same principle it would likely result in us getting our booty kicked year in year out. What it wouldnt fit is a statement which says NRL players are better athletes with a superior skill set. It simply means that the best 17 Australia put out are better than the best 17 we can put out.

You could tear my English in seven? Thats not an idiom Im familar with. Have you made it up?

Merrin wouldnt walk into any SL team. He would not be a front line prop at any of the top 8. He is a fairly poor player. Yet he played SoO because there are only so many good players in the NRL. There are many SL players much better than many NRL players.

So you think that because he doesnt play NRL nobody in the NRL would employ him. Yet they will, next season employ an inferior player in Buderus. Your logic, even in the circular premise you have set up doesnt work.

But being better than Heremaia clearly makes you good enough for the NRL and Heremaia wont be in the top 10 hookers in SL next year. Ergo there are at least 10 hookers better than an NRL hooker and as such at least 10 SL hookers who are good enough for the NRL as Heremaia was.
So how come Buderus who is inferior to Roby will be in the NRL next year if only the best players play in the NRL? How come Heremaia was in the NRL this year when there are so many English hookers next to him. Christ Kevin Sinfield is a better hooker than Heremaia and thats his third choice position.

Run that past me again? You're idea is that SL is sub-par because they send out the best team they can where as in the NRL they choose inferior players over superior players and this somehow translates in to the NRL putting out better teams?

How much do I think he is worth?
But you wouldnt need to do so if there was a steady supply of players better than their SL counterparts. If Roby wouldnt get a game in the NRL then the NRL wouldnt be employing dross like Heremaia. If Peacock wouldnt get a gig in the NRL we wouldnt see absolute pants like Josh Cordoba getting contracts.

You were so close. You're trolling has shone through. You could have been great. You got greedy.

You're letting yourself down.

There is demand for Buderus, hence him leaving a lucrative contract in this country to return to the NRL.

Maybe Roby doesnt want to go. Buderus is an inferior player to Roby. I say that as a Leeds fan, given the choice, every day of every week I would take Roby over Buderus.
There are no 33 year old English players in the NRL. There is a product of the British youth system who couldnt get a game in SL yet has played more games in the NRL though.

SL is a fully pro competition. Im sure you mean that to be disparaging but it just makes you sound ill-informed.

Yes, the NRL will take inferior players instead of superior players.

Have I at any stage disputed that?

If you wish.

Can I congratulate both of you on some of the finest ' dissecting ' posts I have ever seen





I've not read any of it , but boy does it look impressive

So you meant the concept of clutching at straws belongs to me rather than it was what you thought I was doing? It now makes less sense. Why have you swapped the word spin for the word your? thats why it doesnt make sense.
here you know, the quote i was responding to.

No I havent. Its why you have had to say


No it isnt, its an absolute statement. There is no qualification. I can assume you meant to add a qualification but you didnt.

In which case, you used the word incorrectly in both cases and it resulted in nonsensical sentences. In fact, you used the word erroneously (I used that in a sentence so you could see how it works)

Normally, I wouldn’t be bothered but you have spent a lot of time on this thread calling people idiots and halfwits and accusing people of not being able to read and I cannot stand the hypocrisy

Come on guys this has gotten a bit out of hand. By all means we need to pick up people who spout generalisations but I don't think there was any malice intended, not that I'm suggesting that's what the respondents are suggesting lol.

1. Tomkins
2. Briscoe
3. Yeaman
4. Jones-Bishop / Reed
5. Charnley
6. Widdop
7. Chase
8. Peacock
9. Roby
10. Graham
11. Ellis
12. Westwood
13. O'Loughlin

Subs
Morley
Brough
J Tomkins
Carvell

And then you have the likes of Hall,Heightington, Lomax, Welham etc

Hall is by far the best winger England have on offer. FWIW:

Tomkins
Hall
Atkins
Tomkins
Briscoe
Widdop
Chase
Peacock
Roby
Graham
Ellis
Heighington
Sinfield

Carvell, Westwood, Morley, Bridge

I think Smokey broke his own record for the 37th time

[

Do you actually seriously believe that ? If you do then you're clearly deluded.

I like Tomkins but he needs to prove this at the top level then. He has not done well in internationals or WCC yet.

A lot of people still going for peacock.

Whilst his defensive display against Warrington was not only intesnse, but showed a lot of experience as well, I'm not sure if he's still offering enough go forward.

I know we can always rely on him to up his game for the big matches, but prop isn't a postition we're struggling with if we wanted a change.

After a sluggish start to this season (And remember this is his first full season at fullback) Tomkins then hit a vein of form that was absolutely magnificent and really did light up the league.

He's got everything needed to be a world class international but i'd agree he'll need to prove this in the 4N Autumn, if only to shut some of the haters up who clearly just have a problem with him.

And in my previous post i was answering a post by r a n c i d who insanely suggested that Tomkins was nothing and half the athlete Josh Dugan is !! I also had a problem with him suggesting he's not as good as Locke but thats for another discussion !!

Whilst I don't think we will beat Oz or NZ I have to say that the side does look more exciting on attack then we have had for many a year. I think we will score points, I just very much doubt we can defend well enough to keep either side below 20.

anyone comparing the NRL to SL only needs to look at the pudding that Manly had playing on the bench in the GF - George Rose - who looked like a slightly more unfit version of Feka Paleasina after a night on the kebabs.

The sad thing is, he will probably end up over in SL before too long.

1. Tomkins S
2. Charnley
3. Reed
4. Yeaman
5. Hall
6. Chase
7. Brough
8. Morley
9. Roby
10. Graham
11. Heighington
12. Ellis
13. Sinfield

14. Burrow
15. Peacock
16. Tomkins J
17. Jones-Buchanan