No. It really isn't. For all of the reasons I outlines above, and more.

And if you really can't see that, if your response to the fine is really 'it's nothing' and 'Thomas should take abuse silently, he's the one to blame' then you're displaying and attitude is precisely part of the problem, not the solution. It also undermines the club's actual case which is that it takes the issue seriously, in line with the RFL respect policy it is signed up to, and took all reasonable steps it could be expected to to address it.

I'd like to think though that a lot of Cas posters who I like and admire are going overboard in their reaction to this, and when the dust has settled will have a more reasoned approach.



Again, the victim is not to blame for the crime. The scrotes are.

I wasn't at the Crusaders game – but am I right in thinking this is the same bunch of drunken youths who spent last season hanging round the giant screen position at the Railway End trying to pick fights with the Quins fans (hardly any of them there, that's brave) or set fire to Catalanglaise's flag (again hardly any there, so really brave)? If so, they should have been identified, ejected and banned from the ground some time ago – on the positive side, though, I've not actually noticed them recently …

Identify them and deal with them. You don't have to be physical.
They are there to watch the game. The club reserves the right to refuse or eject as they see fit. They warn and then carry out their threat.
If the numbers are so big that the stewards can't handle it then yes, I would prefer the overall security costs to increase to ensure all round safety.
You can't have a group of people breaking the rules of the club/RFL and getting away with it just because there are a lot of them.

Perhaps he looked at the history of RL and its precedents for those particpating from minority backgrounds like Clive Sullivan and Ikram Butt as opposed to thinking about a couple of neanderthals who thought it 'was a laugh' to taunt an accomplished rugby player on the safety of the terraces.

Thomas publicised his book on the back of his revelations.He ought to have kept quiet if he did not want it to be common knowledge.

Slightly OT, but i am Head of Yr 8 at a secondary school and any fom of bullying is treated EXACTLY the same, be it racist (altho this must also be reported to the LEA), hair colour, gender, SO, etc.

And no its not exactly the same-calling GT blondie or browny or baldy would be the same.

Why f*ck would he want to keep quiet and 'not want it to become common knowlecge'?

And in what way does being open about his sexuality (as every heterosexual player is) mean that he should be subjected to knuckle dragging abuse?

rlCas to appealrl

And on the basis of that statement, they've every right to.


What we don'tneed is knuckle-draggers from other clubs – including KR Clockwork Mouse – 'supporting' us by turning the issue into some sort of anti-Gareth Thomas crusade or neanderthals like Starry with their 'it's only children being naughty, you can't be expected to control the crowd anyway, and it's not like homophobia is anything serious' boll'ox

But people do, and you know that already living in a country where ginger people are continually harassed. If the RFL respect policy is truely about respect, then i'm sure ginger haired people would like to be in on it as much as gay people.
rlLinkrl
rlLinkrl
I can't see any difference with these stories tbh. If we were to replace the "ginger" part of the story and put in "gay" does it make a difference? No it doesn't. Everyone deserves respect and to not have to be treated in such a way.

It's 2010, a time when PC may be over the top at times, but there is no difference to calling someone names for being gay, black, fat or ginger. Singing "we can see you holding hands" is in no way worse than "you fat barsteward" or "fat, ginger, scouse barsteward" or many of the other chants that have gone on in RL terraces. On the occasion at Cas, the chants were by a very small number of people (many in the ground never heard it) as opposed to five hundred to a few thousand singing at other RL players at most other grounds. Many people have questioned the severity of the fine, and asked what more the club could have done on the day. The latest statement from the club also questions this and for a fine supposedly imposed on the club because they didn't do anything at the time, this seems very harsh to me.

Still, i look forward to James Graham coming where we at Cas will be looking to get a full five or six thousand fans chanting, "you fat scouse " because that's ok with the RFL and there respect policy.

There's no difference tb, and if the RFL see fit to fine Cas Tigers £40k for this, then they should be dishing out fines left right and centre to lots of other clubs for all the chants that have gone on. I'm fine with dealing with issues in society and sport, but to pick out one club and fine them so harshly while ignoring other identical problems is damn right wrong.

no, you are wrong.

You are wrong. You are confusing three different things, Banter at a rugby match, bullying, and the use of words, phrases and actions that were used and unfortunately still are, to persecute groups of people it what seems like an attempt to trivialise homophobia.

If a player was 'bullied' as in your two links for being ginger then the club and the rfl would have a duty to deal with. But that isnt what you are talking about with James Graham. You are talking someone mocking someones physical characteristic within the expected banter at a rugby football match.

Homophobia, like racism, is different. For many many years homosexuals and ethnic minorities were persecuted, some terrible atrocities were committed because of these things not all that long ago. When you are homophobic you are using words, phrases and actions which are representative of the attitudes which led to persecution and some terrible terrible things.

Whilst it would be lovely if homophobia and racism didnt exist, and society treated homosexuals no different from people who were overweight or ginger, where singing about a gay man liking anal sex was the same as singing about a fat man liking cake and it held no further connotations, there was no more weight behind the N word than Ginger, it simply isnt the case.

Whilst ever people are and have been persecuted and discriminated against because they are gay, it is unacceptable to say things, and do things which are representative of those attitudes

Ok Pillock for brains [ you started it [ what Exactly ] should the club , Cas have done , ON THE DAY TO STOP THE PEOPLE WHO CHANTED

[sizeSTOP [/size?

And no fancy bollox , , real terms , what should they have done ?

No, you are wrong.

You are wrong. Ginger people, throughout history, like black people and gay people have been persecuted. Ginger people have been hunted down and killed simply because they were ginger. The whole ginger p!ss take of 2010 is a long lost hatred of all people ginger. Our own hatred of all things ginger comes from the fear of not knowing about something that doesn't happen often (ginger hair). Similarly this is often the case with gays and blacks through history. Our fear of ginger has led to people being burnt as witches and vampires, sacrificed to the gods or used as poison and much more. In our own country a fear of the celtic tribes of Scotland and Ireland, who had a high percentage of red heads led us to also have a fear and dislike for all things ginger.

People are telling me that gingers have not been percecuted in history, but they have. Telling me that ginger haired people have not been percecuted recently, which they have. Apparently they haven't been any gingers killed for being ginger, but there has. No ginger haired person has been bullied at school or work for being ginger, but they have. Gays and blacks are born that way and so we shouldn't discrimate against them, but ginger haired people are born that way also. When anyone mentions a gay chant, it's homophobic, but when it's ginger it's banter. You're as bad as the racists and homophobes by dismissing this issue as banter when for many ginger haired people it is cruel torment. Dave Kitson, a ginger haired premier league footballer tried and failed to make people aware of his torment at the hands of thousands of fans chanting ginger jibes at him. How is this any different to what Gareth Thomas suffered? The only difference is that our country sees it as a big joke and those in the minority have to simply put up with it. Other minorities, gays, blacks, asians and the rest do not have to put up with this and if they do they can do something about it.

Radlinski makes some strong and very valid points in his autobio about the ginger 'racism'.

Sadly idiots always find something to discrimiate against. These are the mindless few that we should all discriminate against.

Isn't race a physical charachteristic?

Quote: marshman "No, you are wrong. You are wrong. Ginger people, throughout history, like black people and gay people have been persecuted. Ginger people have been hunted down and killed simply because they were ginger. The whole ginger p!ss take of 2010 is a long lost hatred of all people ginger. Our own hatred of all things ginger comes from the fear of not knowing about something that doesn't happen often (ginger hair). Similarly this is often the case with gays and blacks through history. Our fear of ginger has led to people being burnt as witches and vampires, sacrificed to the gods or used as poison and much more. In our own country a fear of the celtic tribes of Scotland and Ireland, who had a high percentage of red heads led us to also have a fear and dislike for all things ginger. People are telling me that gingers have not been percecuted in history, but they have. Telling me that ginger haired people have not been percecuted recently, which they have. Apparently they haven't been any gingers killed for being ginger, but there has. No ginger haired person has been bullied at school or work for being ginger, but they have. Gays and blacks are born that way and so we shouldn't discrimate against them, but ginger haired people are born that way also. When anyone mentions a gay chant, it's homophobic, but when it's ginger it's banter. You're as bad as the racists and homophobes by dismissing this issue as banter when for many ginger haired people it is cruel torment. Dave Kitson, a ginger haired premier league footballer tried and failed to make people aware of his torment at the hands of thousands of fans chanting ginger jibes at him. How is this any different to what Gareth Thomas suffered? The only difference is that our country sees it as a big joke and those in the minority have to simply put up with it. Other minorities, gays, blacks, asians and the rest do not have to put up with this and if they do they can do something about it.'" No, you are wrong, you are also either naive bordering on ignorant, or you yourself harbour some homophobic tendandcies Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and accepting you are simply naive, maybe you would like to compare the somebody shouting Ginner at James Graham to state sponsored murder of homosexuals in Uganda news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8412962.stm, Iran www.hrw.org/en/news/2005/11/21/i ... al-conduct or homophobic murder in this very country news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/mers ... 960271.stm and violence news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/mers ... 326810.stm why dont we compare the list of countries where homosexuality is illegal and where being ginger is illegal? why dont we compare the level of homophobic attacks to the level of Gingerphobic attacks? Maybe you could tell me if it was before or after 1967 that is was made legal to be a ginger in this country? maybe when the the death penalty for ginger acts was abolished?(1861 for homosexual acts) maybe you have similar examples of people more recent than the witch trials and celtic history of gingers being murdered? could you share them with the class? or maybe, just maybe, celtic history isnt really comparable with now. And for the same reason calling someone a witch isnt considered religious discrimination calling someone ginger isnt racist discrimination, nor blondie. Trying to trivialise homophobia doesnt make Cas' actions any better, or any more acceptable, It just does a huge disservice to the horrors people are still suffering. Excuse me, i have a game to go to.

Quote: marshman "No, you are wrong. You are wrong. Ginger people, throughout history, like black people and gay people have been persecuted. Ginger people have been hunted down and killed simply because they were ginger. The whole ginger p!ss take of 2010 is a long lost hatred of all people ginger. Our own hatred of all things ginger comes from the fear of not knowing about something that doesn't happen often (ginger hair). Similarly this is often the case with gays and blacks through history. Our fear of ginger has led to people being burnt as witches and vampires, sacrificed to the gods or used as poison and much more. In our own country a fear of the celtic tribes of Scotland and Ireland, who had a high percentage of red heads led us to also have a fear and dislike for all things ginger. People are telling me that gingers have not been percecuted in history, but they have. Telling me that ginger haired people have not been percecuted recently, which they have. Apparently they haven't been any gingers killed for being ginger, but there has. No ginger haired person has been bullied at school or work for being ginger, but they have. Gays and blacks are born that way and so we shouldn't discrimate against them, but ginger haired people are born that way also. When anyone mentions a gay chant, it's homophobic, but when it's ginger it's banter. You're as bad as the racists and homophobes by dismissing this issue as banter when for many ginger haired people it is cruel torment. Dave Kitson, a ginger haired premier league footballer tried and failed to make people aware of his torment at the hands of thousands of fans chanting ginger jibes at him. How is this any different to what Gareth Thomas suffered? The only difference is that our country sees it as a big joke and those in the minority have to simply put up with it. Other minorities, gays, blacks, asians and the rest do not have to put up with this and if they do they can do something about it.'" No, you are wrong, you are also either naive bordering on ignorant, or you yourself harbour some homophobic tendandcies Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and accepting you are simply naive, maybe you would like to compare the somebody shouting Ginner at James Graham to state sponsored murder of homosexuals in Uganda news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8412962.stm, Iran www.hrw.org/en/news/2005/11/21/i ... al-conduct or homophobic murder in this very country news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/mers ... 960271.stm and violence news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/mers ... 326810.stm why dont we compare the list of countries where homosexuality is illegal and where being ginger is illegal? why dont we compare the level of homophobic attacks to the level of Gingerphobic attacks? Maybe you could tell me if it was before or after 1967 that is was made legal to be a ginger in this country? maybe when the the death penalty for ginger acts was abolished?(1861 for homosexual acts) maybe you have similar examples of people more recent than the witch trials and celtic history of gingers being murdered? could you share them with the class? or maybe, just maybe, celtic history isnt really comparable with now. And for the same reason calling someone a witch isnt considered religious discrimination calling someone ginger isnt racist discrimination, nor blondie. Trying to trivialise homophobia doesnt make Cas' actions any better, or any more acceptable, It just does a huge disservice to the horrors people are still suffering. Excuse me, i have a game to go to.