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Quote: gutterfax "The RFL should only be concerned about attendances after round 27. The missing (estimated at an average 30 quid per fan per game, ticket, beer, food, shop)) 4.6 million in ticketing and residual revenues thus far is only of concern to the 14 Club CEO's and Chairmen..........who it would seem in the case of the big fallers, don't seem to know what to do to address their losses.'"

Assumption
Leeds ------------------------------------------------
Revenue Loss Subtotal

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Quote: LeedsDave "Lol at Eddie Hemmings on sky tonight

"Come on Huddersfield fans, get down and support your team. Its pathetic top of the superleague can only get 5k"

Even sky are trolling their support now!'"

Even Sky are exasperated and mystified by the lack of support. I'll say it again - we might think we understand why people do or don't go to games but we don't really know. What we desperately need is for clubs to commission proper research. This is more complex than just putting out a survey - it requires lots of skill to get right, because survey results can be totally misleading. An important part of research is to 'catch people in the act' of non-attendance and find out there and then *exactly* why they didn't go. You'll find the 'live' reasons are often more mundane ( "kids are tired and kick off too late", "buses aren't on", etc) but more honest than if you just send out a survey and give people time to think up a reply (when you're more likely to get an analysis of the club or sport, but frankly, not the truth as to what's keeping them away). Obviously there's going to be a ton of factors. Playoffs, P&R, etc may well come up as important - if they do, then the clubs are armed with data with which to lobby the RFL for changes ( or not ).

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[quote="dally messenger":1gysl9ow]was watching an nfl doco. on one of their teams and they used the term bomb to describe those long high passes from quaterback to running back and i think gibson took that idea, realized you cant throw the ball forward in RL and adapted it to a "bomb" kick we have[/quote:1gysl9ow] [quote="eels fan":1gysl9ow]You poor poor obsessed fat ex vichyballin potato thieving stoaway.[/quote:1gysl9ow]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6679.png



Quote: RLBandit "Even Sky are exasperated and mystified by the lack of support. I'll say it again - we might think we understand why people do or don't go to games but we don't really know. What we desperately need is for clubs to commission proper research. This is more complex than just putting out a survey - it requires lots of skill to get right, because survey results can be totally misleading. An important part of research is to 'catch people in the act' of non-attendance and find out there and then *exactly* why they didn't go. You'll find the 'live' reasons are often more mundane ( "kids are tired and kick off too late", "buses aren't on", etc) but more honest than if you just send out a survey and give people time to think up a reply (when you're more likely to get an analysis of the club or sport, but frankly, not the truth as to what's keeping them away). Obviously there's going to be a ton of factors. Playoffs, P&R, etc may well come up as important - if they do, then the clubs are armed with data with which to lobby the RFL for changes ( or not ).'"

Or you can hire a marketing bloke from Manchester city who likes cartoons

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Quote: gutterfax "Or you can hire a marketing bloke from Manchester city who likes cartoons'"

Lol, good point. "Not enough cartoons" has been the biggest whinge I've heard ever since Superleague started. Seriously though - that's exactly the point - marketing looks completely random to me. Maybe it's not, maybe 'cartoons' was identified as The Thing To Do, but I'd be more inclined to think it was just "somefink wot I thought up over the weekend"

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Quote: William Eve "Assumption
Leeds ------------------------------------------------
Revenue Loss Subtotal '"


Your not taking into account season ticket deductions v increased on the gate takings.

For example my clubs season ticket sales are down 1000 this year but crowd avg is only down 500. This means there are on avg 500 people paying on the gate prices who previously paid discounted season ticket prices. Meaning losses not as bad as may seem.

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Giants have probably had more income this season than last fwiw

-20% attendance
+100% cost of season tickets...

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Quote: Code13 "Giants have probably had more income this season than last fwiw

-20% attendance
+100% cost of season tickets...'"


Indeed, Wakefield ST's went up by 25% on last season and we have only seen a 10% drop in attendances.

mat
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Quote: Code13 "Giants have probably had more income this season than last fwiw

-20% attendance
+100% cost of season tickets...'"

Ditto for Bradford

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[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/14252202:io879g1y]2005 Challenge Cup[/url:io879g1y] To reconcile respect with practicality, what is the optimum speed for a hearse?:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_7384.png



Quote: William Eve "Assumption
Leeds ------------------------------------------------
Revenue Loss Subtotal '"

Out of interest, what is the £30 per fan assumption comprised of?

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Bad guesswork! Avg ticket price is probably close to 15-20 pound when you take into account Jnr's, students, concessions, cheapest stands, season ticket discounts and offers during the season.

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Quote: JB Down Under "Bad guesswork! Avg ticket price is probably close to 15-20 pound when you take into account Jnr's, students, concessions, cheapest stands, season ticket discounts and offers during the season.'"


Yeah but that would be realistic and not the worst case scenario that Mr Eve likes to paint.

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Quote: Chris28 "Out of interest, what is the £30 per fan assumption comprised of?'"

rlHERErl

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Quote: William Eve "rlHERErl'"

Fair enough. I thought it must include that, but hadn't read back

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[quote="dally messenger":1gysl9ow]was watching an nfl doco. on one of their teams and they used the term bomb to describe those long high passes from quaterback to running back and i think gibson took that idea, realized you cant throw the ball forward in RL and adapted it to a "bomb" kick we have[/quote:1gysl9ow] [quote="eels fan":1gysl9ow]You poor poor obsessed fat ex vichyballin potato thieving stoaway.[/quote:1gysl9ow]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6679.png



Quote: Chris28 "Out of interest, what is the £30 per fan assumption comprised of?'"


Quote: Chris28 "Bad guesswork! Avg ticket price is probably close to 15-20 pound when you take into account Jnr's, students, concessions, cheapest stands, season ticket discounts and offers during the season.'"


Actually, it's not far off the mark in regards to lost revenue (I never said ticket revenue and I never said profit)

The average ticket price for a SL game is somewhere between 10-20 based on ST prices through to walk up. Let us say, for the purpose of this match lesson, we give YOU the benefit of the doubt.....we'll say it's 14 notes a pop.

so, 16 notes to find.....hmm...let me see. When was the last time you went to a RL game in SL or the NRL and didn't buy a programme (3 quid?), a beer (3quid), a Pie (2.50?) or visit the shop to add to your burgeoning collection of shirts (50?), scarves (15?) hats (12?) t-shirts (10?) etc etc. Then there are the match day lotteries that some clubs run, official away games where they clip the ticket (10?).....

When I went to the Broncos/Quins, I generally blagged freebies for me and Mrs G, but on the basis we'd paid for the tickets and at a minimum of 10 (7/3 split...she has a problem icon_cool.gif ) pints each with 1 burger and 2 chips (followed by a scary cycle home icon_lol.gif ) and judging by the selection of London RL in both our wardrobes and my programme collection, I reckon that we were on 75.00 a game BEFORE we visited the shop. If we only bought 1 replica shirt each a year the we have spent over a grand...of 45 quid each a game....I have every shirt since 2003, a selection of hats, coats away strips, ties, cufflinks, watches, wallets etc....she has a bunch of Quins RL gear as well as some pretty decent stuf ffrom the dark side......

Not everyone hammers 5 pints a game, not does everyone buy replica gear or programmes.....but with 2 chips and a burger, and a few drinks together with the potential of replica shirts and all the rest, I say 30 notes a visit per fan is not far off the mark as an AVERAGE. I have not assumed a growth in commercial and corporate hospitality in my calculations, but if you allow for a 10% drop in that across the board, then the figure grows to nearer 50 notes a head.....

Your sweeping assertion that I guessed the figure is based on nothing than insecurity that Billy Eve might have a point......and that the game might be close to 6 million down in revenue by seasons end. If I am 20% out, the figure is still potentially 5 million a year......if I am 20% out the other way, then nearer 7.5 million a year....I am not "making these figures up" or pulling them out of my ...they are based on various prices across the board....I doubt an exact figure could ever be arrived at.

I have no idea as to Billy's motives in this thread, but personally, I'd like people at the RFL to be given KPI's and to have a full and complete understanding as to the rewards and the consequences of performance....because as it stands, they all seem to have jobs for life, regardless of the clusterf++k they are making of the simplest of tasks.

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....I doubt an exact figure could ever be arrived at.

So you made a guess based on anecdotal experience?
There are a wide range of factors involved that you simply do not know therefore can not predict with any accuracy the financial impact of.

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