As some of you know, I love helping out the French RL fans by updating the scores and any news coming from the French local League on the various English speaking forums.

Over the last couple of years, you guys have had Toulouse Olympique in the NL1 comp and they were pretty poor on field and their crowds were nothing special off. (averaged between 1,000-2,000 each game) They have now gone back to play in the French LER 1 and the crowds are still the same even though they have one of the top teams in the local comp.

Meanwhile, a side from Avignon are in their second year in the LER 1 and they are already near the top of the table, what's weird about this team is, last year they were hopeless, but each week, the crowds grew, usually you see a team build up slowly over seasons, but this team/town/city seem to be growing weekly.

Yesterday they beat Toulouse 22-0 in the pouring rain and had 2,900 turn up, just under 2 months ago, they had 17,000 turn up to watch France play England. When the last 4 nations was held in the northern hemisphere (2009) and NZ played France, 12,000 turned up in Toulouse while just over 6,000 watched France play Australia in Paris.

Should the RFL jump in with Toulouse like everyone seems to think they will, or should they have a look at a place like Avignon that seems to really like the game?

I know Toulouse is a massive city and it has a history of RL and has a major airport and all that, but I'm starting to think the second team (if one does happen) maybe should be from Avignon.

Who would you prefer and why if the ESL decided on a second team?

I can't see Paris doing anything and quite frankly, they don't deserve a go, but have a vote and put in your option if you think another team should be looked at.

Much more work needs to be done for the foundations of a club over there before the idea is even considered.

Even some of the logistics for some of the Catalans games leaves a little to be desired if being honest from my own experiences.

Understandable.

But I really think they need a second side to kick things along,. Before the Catalans were put in the ESL, they were at an all time low of 7k playing the game, this year it's gone up to 40k. Another team in the right place could do wonders.

I think a stronger French league would have a much better effect for the time being rather than having another side isolated in the Super League. If the French sides continue to improve and start to do better in the Challenge Cup then hopefully it will help it to grow in to almost a RL version of the Heineken Cup in RU.

I have always felt the same and I guess you could say I'm looking for short cuts for the pro game.

That has to be the ultimate goal of the French, a strong domestic comp with crowds and television/media coverage.

But at the same time, if a team is good enough has the money and the local French players, why not put them in SL, if and when the French comp is big and strong enough, I'm sure they/them would be no problem to go back.

I'm for having another French team in Super League for a limited time, and with conditions attached, for the sole purpose of strengthening the game in France, with the ultimate aim of their national side being strong and competitive.

Two strong, Super League standard teams could eventually head up a French Super League, but before that, the French sides should both be compelled to bring youngsters through the ranks to play for both sides, and be drafted into other Super League teams. Smaller French RL teams should tie in with both clubs and other SL clubs for the same reasons - the aim being that the pool of Super League standard French players grows.

As an example, imagine if you had two French SL teams, each with 10 Frenchmen regularly making up the 17, and each other SL club had one to two Frenchmen in their squad too. Assuming the players are up to scratch of course, that's enough players to put out a strong French national side.

If the same could be applied to Wales, then we SHOULD have three competitive Northern Hemisphere sides within 10-20 years.

How do their crowds compare to the rest of the clubs in LER1 this season?

FFS, no more artificially inflated teams into Super League.

Another French club? Great, a massive hike in expense if I want to watch my team all season, plus another game with zero away fans (resulting not only in loss of atmosphere, but also loss of revenue to all SL clubs). And yet another team full of journeymen Aussies and a few token locals and ageing Brits.

No. Build a French league by all means - I'm sure we would all love a competitive French league and strong French national side, but not by weakening, devaluing and tinkering around with the British game yet again. Haven't we learnt from our mistakes?

RL isnt strong enough to run on a basis where we have separate french, English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish etc, etc systems with those systems competing in a champions league type competition. Fact is, besides association football and possibly basketball no sport in Europe is strong enough to sustain that type of competition. Even RU only really functions like that in England and France with a domestic game in this country which isnt sustainable as it currently is. Its never going to happen. Les Catalans are never going to go back to the french leagues, it would only damage them and do nothing to bring up the standard of the teams they are playing. It would be akin to putting Leeds or Wigan in the NL's, it wouldnt make any sense and wouldnt benefit anybody.

You need at the very least 10 pro teams to have a functioning pro league, putting Les Catalans or Les Catalans +1 as pro teams back into a semi-pro league wont make it a pro french league, it will make it a league with 8 semi-pro teams and 2 shrinking pro sides, It is naive to pretend we are ever going to build a fully pro french RL. Our medium/long term aim should be to have 4/5 fully pro french sides in SL with a healthy, functioning, nationwide semi-pro league underneath it.

The next TV deal is for 5 years and will take us to 2016, In the 2014 franchise decision, we should look at two separate processes, one the same processes we have been through over the past 2 decisions with a new license likely given to a heartland side in place of likely another heartland side, with a separate process to admit 2 more sides (if ready) in 2017 expanding the league to 16 sides, but giving them three years to prepare (as Catalans did) with at least one of those sides being a French side.

This would allow us to renegotiate our TV deal in full knowledge of the make up in the 2017 season with two clubs ready, and prepared to move up.

The Super League isnt the top tier of the British pyramid, it is the top tier of the European RL pyramid. And its great that that is the case. Les Catalans have been a massive, unmitigated success and contribute as much as any other side in our league.

So RL isn't strong enough for a 'Champions League' style competition, despite the Challenge Cup already featuring sides from a number of countries, but a fully fledged European Super League is a viable option? Interesting.

Yes its obvious really, a champions league style competition requires us to have fully-pro leagues. If we take France as an example, then they would need at least 10 fully pro sides to have a meaningful fully-pro league, which means about 200 fully pro french players. Id love that to be the case, I just dont think it is viable in anywhere near the foreseeable future.

In a fully fledged European Super League we would expect 5 or so fully pro french sides, or 100 fully pro french players, along actually having a TV deal to actually fund a pro league. 100 fully pro players seems a lot more achievable than 200 to me.

The same is the case of the home nations, and then other nations in Europe. Are we closer or more likely to be able to create a club with 20 fully pro Welsh players or a league with 200?

to answer your question then Avignon would be an excellent choice with the potential fans on tap in the PACA ,just as in the Toulouse area
I would lean towards Toulouse because of the infrastructure ie transport links with plenty of direct flights,easy access to the stadium by foot or by metro plus loads of hotels etc
Avignon is a nice place but the infracstructure isn't as good as Toulouse from my point of view based on many visits to both cities.
Paris is a no-no for me - any second SL outfit has to be based in an rl heartland

We stage a game at Avignon, dish out thousands of free tickets with a large proportion of English fans using them and people believe they should get a SL team. No, no way

You really think thousands northerners, especially with the types of complaints we invariably see regards teams from anywhere further than their end of their street (see the northampton thread, or the first page of this thread for examples) went all the way to Avignon to see a game because the tickets were free?

You could pay for their flights and hotels and RL fans would still moan about paying the cab fare to the stadium because it was too far.

The crowd was 99% french. Sadly also around 99% didn't pay!!

Why bother putting in another expansion team which will undoubtedly fall flat on it's within two years? Get Widnes in.

Toulouse, I'm sure is the RFL's preference. But they need to sort the stadium and a few other things by 2014 if they plan on bidding that year...

Some sad and predictable responses on this thread.

if their stadium isn't ready they already have an agreement with Stade Toulousain to use their ground

As I'm sure you will testify though, there is a hell of a lot of work that needs to go on in Toulouse to even introduce the idea that two codes of rugby exist before it's a viable Super League franchise. Would be a huge boost for the game although again I think progress within a French competition would largely be the way forward, especially in the terms that the current situation over there isn't all that different from over here pre-Super League.

I'd love to see another French team joining the Super League bit instead of rushing into this, we need to get them through the Championships where they can develop a fanbase, develop their youth system etc etc. I'm all for Avignon, Paris, FC Lezignan etc playing in the Super League one day but first they need to try the Championship.

Tolouse have tried the Championship and have undoubtedly improved their whole club from the experience. Can they manage the step up to Super League? That's not for me to decide but I'd say they need to improve their stadium first.

I'd also like the same to be applied in other areas too eg Scotland and Ireland. Let them try the Championship and turn themselves into a professional / semi pro club. Then see if they have the potential to be a SL club.

But I don't think fast tracking clubs is the way to go

This is a very poor attempt to stir the poo

a successful Toulouse LER side would be better than a mediocre team when it comes to SL application but it doesn't make a lot of difference in the long run as a SL team would be 'bought and constructed with the best french players available and of course the team strengthened by the usual imports - I agree with you though that the important thing is to build up a stronger LER competition and not fast track another french team into SL just for the sake of it

Though surely that is more achievable by Toulouse (or someone else) showing us what they plan to do, and then giving them three years to do it. Then bringing them in. Rather than saying you can apply in three years, you might not get in, and if you do you have a matter of months to make the jump.

Nobody doubts Toulouse (or whoever) would have work to do, but giving them SL and the time to do it makes it a hell of a lot easier and a hell of lot more likely to happen. Tell them now, in three years one of you will be given a place starting 2017, get yourselves in a position to apply by 2014 and if you get the place you can spend 2015, and 2016 building an SL level academy and youth squad, start looking for sponsors, possibly a better tv deal, organise your stadium, getting your marketing set up and build some excitement, get your corporates sold out, get the logistics sorted. Spend two or three years building a top SL quality club, so that when you do join, you only have to put together an SL quality side.