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Quote: Levrier "h025.gif Compared with football the cost of sponsoring Super League is minimal. Yes football takes up a lot of sponsorship but that may not be the case forever as platforms diversify in the internet age. At present most Premier League teams make so much money from TV deals that they could give tickets away and still make a profit. It reminds me of the South Sea Bubble or the Tulip craze and is being driven by development in previously poorer parts of the world. The suggestion that we should roll over and die must be refuted. Returning to semi-pro status would be the end of the game. Other sports earn more in sponsorship than we do largely because our public profile stinks. Hopefully expansion clubs like Toronto might help to change that. Accepting the status quo is as bad as giving up. I do not watch St Pats often and if that is what we can offer as the pinnacle of our sport we may as well give up. As for the equalizing everyone down argument it is a non starter. We need to even everyone up to the level of the best practice teams otherwise we really will be competing for participants with the RNLI. h025.gif'"
Missed my point all together! I am not talking about equalising down. just making the point that our sport as most sports that are not of interest to the vast majority of the worlds population or the mass market in the USA or Asia can not get the type of TV revenue we need to pay full time players or make the profits that will bring in investment. We are a small niche market who on the whole are watched by people who are not in the highest income groups that the advertisers are courting. The only thing in my opinion that will make our sport entertaining is for equally matched matches with tight results at whatever level you choose to watch. Wether that will help to spread the sport is anyone’s guess, but getting the game spread wider & more people playing the better. If people don’t like watching games that are not played in super stadiums by highly paid players then we are sunk anyway.

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Quote: Alan "At least that's one thing we've got going for us, in Leigh. Beeching closed our railway, way back in 1969. In fact the town is now reckoned to be the largest in England without a station.
Alan,i don't wish to undermine your post,but here is a list of towns on wiki without a train station from the 2011 census. I'm sure the population would have changed 7 years on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... ay_station
Quote: Alan "At least that's one thing we've got going for us, in Leigh. Beeching closed our railway, way back in 1969. In fact the town is now reckoned to be the largest in England without a station.
Alan,i don't wish to undermine your post,but here is a list of towns on wiki without a train station from the 2011 census. I'm sure the population would have changed 7 years on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... ay_station


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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: puroresu_boy " Rugby Union in Australia is dead'"

Somebody should tell the ARU that, because 120,000 watched their 3 tests v Ireland earlier this year, 110 ,000 people have attended their 3 tests in the Championship so far and now they're off to South Africa and Argentina, before heading north to play Wales, Italy and England in games where they receive a quite hefty appearance fee.

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Quote: Call Me God "Somebody should tell the ARU that, because 120,000 watched their 3 tests v Ireland earlier this year, 110 ,000 people have attended their 3 tests in the Championship so far and now they're off to South Africa and Argentina, before heading north to play Wales, Italy and England in games where they receive a quite hefty appearance fee.'"


On the face of it not too bad, but look a bit deeper. Its well know that Rugby Union in Australia is down and out.

Ten’s live broadcast of the deciding Rugby test match between Australia and Ireland drew a metro audience of 435,000, which was not enough to pull the channel out of last place on the ratings ladder.'"


Taken from planet rugby forumTRC total crowds and avg since 2012

2012 - 532'644 (44'387/match)
2013 - 488,113 (40,676/match) - Down 8.4% from previous
2014 - 430,582 (35,882 per match) - Down 12% from previous
2015 - 243,416 (40,569 per match) - Only 6 matches compared to previous 12 matches - but average up by 13%

2016 - 431,288 (35,941 per match) - 0.2% increase from 2014.
2017 - 367,318 (30,610 per match) - Down 15% from previous'"

Recent Australia matches:

https://www.austadiums.com/sport/crowds.php

Wallabies v Argentina 16k
Wallabies v South Africa 27k

Not exactly a hot ticket whether it be live or on tv.


As for TV ratings, its not even a blip on the radar. Super Rugby has about the same amount of people who watch AFL soccer on a weekly basis tuning in.
Quote: Call Me God "Somebody should tell the ARU that, because 120,000 watched their 3 tests v Ireland earlier this year, 110 ,000 people have attended their 3 tests in the Championship so far and now they're off to South Africa and Argentina, before heading north to play Wales, Italy and England in games where they receive a quite hefty appearance fee.'"


On the face of it not too bad, but look a bit deeper. Its well know that Rugby Union in Australia is down and out.

Ten’s live broadcast of the deciding Rugby test match between Australia and Ireland drew a metro audience of 435,000, which was not enough to pull the channel out of last place on the ratings ladder.'"


Taken from planet rugby forumTRC total crowds and avg since 2012

2012 - 532'644 (44'387/match)
2013 - 488,113 (40,676/match) - Down 8.4% from previous
2014 - 430,582 (35,882 per match) - Down 12% from previous
2015 - 243,416 (40,569 per match) - Only 6 matches compared to previous 12 matches - but average up by 13%

2016 - 431,288 (35,941 per match) - 0.2% increase from 2014.
2017 - 367,318 (30,610 per match) - Down 15% from previous'"

Recent Australia matches:

https://www.austadiums.com/sport/crowds.php

Wallabies v Argentina 16k
Wallabies v South Africa 27k

Not exactly a hot ticket whether it be live or on tv.


As for TV ratings, its not even a blip on the radar. Super Rugby has about the same amount of people who watch AFL soccer on a weekly basis tuning in.


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JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover. There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT::d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_76030.jpg



Quote: puroresu_boy "On the face of it not too bad, but look a bit deeper. Its well know that Rugby Union in Australia is down and out.

So it's not dead then.... Just not as big as league or AFL......

Just found the 2017 accounts online. The ARU made a profit of some 30+ million, so if we're to compare "dead" union with say a lower tier sport in the UK.....something like maybe, Rugby League, there's considerably more f a pulse in 'straia than there is at Red Hall!

As for your "recent aistralian matches"......I listed the attendances for the whole years games 6) as 230,000....I didn't pick the ones I needed. TV revenue accounts for less than 50% of the income of the ARU........so they're not "hooked on TV cash" like the NRL are and sponsorship income exceeds ticket revenue, so they aren't as hug up on attendances as the AFL/NRL are either.....and unlike the RFL who pander to the needs of individual clubs who are weak, the ARU binned Western Australia for the good of the game......hard business minded decisions taken for the benefit of the business

......so I repeat. Not dead then!

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Quote: Call Me God "So it's not dead then.... Just not as big as league or AFL......

Just found the 2017 accounts online. The ARU made a profit of some 30+ million, so if we're to compare "dead" union with say a lower tier sport in the UK.....something like maybe, Rugby League, there's considerably more f a pulse in 'straia than there is at Red Hall!

As for your "recent aistralian matches"......I listed the attendances for the whole years games 6) as 230,000....I didn't pick the ones I needed. TV revenue accounts for less than 50% of the income of the ARU........so they're not "hooked on TV cash" like the NRL are and sponsorship income exceeds ticket revenue, so they aren't as hug up on attendances as the AFL/NRL are either.....and unlike the RFL who pander to the needs of individual clubs who are weak, the ARU binned Western Australia for the good of the game......hard business minded decisions taken for the benefit of the business

......so I repeat. Not dead then!'"


Not as big is an understatement. It's a minority sport competing with AFL soccer.

Hooked on tv cash is the wrong term. Its not through choice Rugby Union in Australia isnt viewed by many people.

Where does the $30 mil profit come from?



RA’s annual report cites the messy axing of the Force amid the Super Rugby restructure and disappointing tickets sales for Wallabies Tests as major factors in the downturn.

RA recorded a surplus of $17.8 million following a $3.7 million surplus in 2016 but the year also included $21.6 million in government funding for the new RA headquarters in Sydney.

Without that one off injection, RA recorded an operational deficit of $3.8 million.'"


There is no amount of spin which can make that look good.

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