| FORUMS > The Virtual Terrace > Dragging in to touch and Touch Downs |
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| Quote: Wirefan "Thanks for clearing that up however I wasn't really angeling that the trys were given against the rules of the game, simply that the rules are too lax with regards to grounding the ball. 'Downward pressure' is vague and there is too much of a grey area. Can you tell me why the try was given in the Cas v Hull KR game? (Not having a go, am genuinely interested) - see
There was nothing grey about the Liam Watts try. As I said earlier in order for a knock-on to be given the ball doesn't just have to leave the hands, it has to hit someone or something else whilst travelling towards the opposition's dead ball line. With the try you are talking about whilst the ball left his hands before the ground he regained contact with it before it hit the ground or anything or anyone else hence the try was correctly given. Have you never seen a player juggle the ball in the air? Is that a knock-on?
With the upright tackle you were talking about the player clearly had his leg lifted off the floor and as per the interpretations which were brought in this year with consultation and request from the SL coaches the referee correctly shouted held on more than one occasion before giving the penalty.
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| Quote: ladyref "There was nothing grey about the Liam Watts try. As I said earlier in order for a knock-on to be given the ball doesn't just have to leave the hands, it has to hit someone or something else whilst travelling towards the opposition's dead ball line. With the try you are talking about whilst the ball left his hands before the ground he regained contact with it before it hit the ground or anything or anyone else hence the try was correctly given. Have you never seen a player juggle the ball in the air? Is that a knock-on?
With the upright tackle you were talking about the player clearly had his leg lifted off the floor and as per the interpretations which were brought in this year with consultation and request from the SL coaches the referee correctly shouted held on more than one occasion before giving the penalty.'"
Yea, if it hits the floor before he catches It again. |
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| Quote: ladyref " in order for a knock-on to be given the ball doesn't just have to leave the hands, it has to hit someone or something else whilst travelling towards the opposition's dead ball line. quote]
So can you please explain to me why there are so many knock-ons awarded in situations where the ball clearly travels backwards ? I don't understand that one .
Nor do I understand why when at the PTB if the player connects the ball with his foot and it goes forwards is it sometimes given as a knock on ? Incorrect PTB I could accept .
Also , while we are on subjects such as these , Is the correct way to PTB to place it on the ground and roll it backwards with your foot ?
It is a lot of years since I played . I remember contested scrums  Studs in the knees and a punch in the face for the front row if you were lucky .
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| Quote: ladyref "Have you never seen a player juggle the ball in the air? Is that a knock-on?'"
Well, yes, if this is the correct definition of a knock-onKNOCK-ON means to knock the ball towards the opponents’ dead ball line with hand or arm, while playing at the ball.'"
So if whilst juggling the ball the player has knocked the ball towards his opponents' dead ball line he has knocked on.
According to the copy of the laws I have play should continue [iafter[/i a knock-on in certain circumstances (the player regaining/kicking the ball). None of which are relevant to the Watts try. Although I do appreciate that the laws of the game as practised by the officials are different to those we mere fans are allowed to know of.
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| Quote: LS13 "
So can you please explain to me why there are so many knock-ons awarded in situations where the ball clearly travels backwards ? I don't understand that one .
Nor do I understand why when at the PTB if the player connects the ball with his foot and it goes forwards is it sometimes given as a knock on ? Incorrect PTB I could accept .
Also , while we are on subjects such as these , Is the correct way to PTB to place it on the ground and roll it backwards with your foot ?
It is a lot of years since I played . I remember contested scrums Studs in the knees and a punch in the face for the front row if you were lucky .
Quote: LS13 " in order for a knock-on to be given the ball doesn't just have to leave the hands, it has to hit someone or something else whilst travelling towards the opposition's dead ball line. quote]
So can you please explain to me why there are so many knock-ons awarded in situations where the ball clearly travels backwards ? I don't understand that one .
Nor do I understand why when at the PTB if the player connects the ball with his foot and it goes forwards is it sometimes given as a knock on ? Incorrect PTB I could accept .
Also , while we are on subjects such as these , Is the correct way to PTB to place it on the ground and roll it backwards with your foot ?
It is a lot of years since I played . I remember contested scrums Studs in the knees and a punch in the face for the front row if you were lucky .
Yes I can, whilst the ball may appear to travel backwards the initial momentum from the hands or arm is forwards towards the opposition dead ball line.
As for your issues with the ptb most times it is not a deliberate act the same as a forward pass is not a deliberate attempt at teaching. Players don't lift their feet high enough and the laws actually state that the ball can be dropped or placed on the floor. If indeed the referee thinks it is a deliberate act then a penalty will be given otherwise just like with a forward pass or accidental off-side the scrum is awarded to the non offending team. As an ex player I'm surprised you didn't know and understand all of this.
I refereed a junior game recently where not only was the scrum contested but was won against the head quite legally.
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In my view it's the laws on tries that need to be changed. I agree with LadyRef, that these tries are mostly being given correctly in line with the current laws, but I also agree with the view that the law needs to be changed to having full control of the ball (ie, having hold of the thing) or 'downward pressure with the palm of the hand' if the ball is loose. Let's get rid of tries that are given if someone brushes the ball with a fingertip or rolls their forearm over a loose ball. They might be in the laws of the game, but I don't think that enough skill is involved for them to be in the spirit of the game.
That should also make it easier for refs who don't have access to a VR.
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