FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > BULLS CHAIRMAN CLARIFIES CLUB'S BANKING RELATIONSHIP
83 posts in 7 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach326No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200816 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jul 2020Jul 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
39852_1301009793.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_39852.jpg



rlhttps://www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/news/5791/BULLS%20CHAIRMAN%20CLARIFIES%20CLUBS%20BANKING%20RELATIONSHIPrl

Thank you Mr Hood

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1008No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2015Sep 2014LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
20201.jpg
"I'm 49, I've had a brain haemorrhage and a triple bypass and I could still go out and play a reasonable game of rugby union. But I wouldn't last 30 seconds in rugby league." - Graham Lowe (1995):20201.jpg



Can someone reconcile the assertion made by Hood in sentence 3 with the other two sentences from Hood's statement please?

Hood says that

1) "the Club provided NatWest with a ‘debenture' - a type of ‘mortgage' over all of the Club's assets in whatever form."

2) "the debenture was left in place against the possibility of a new facility perhaps being needed in future."

and yet he asserts

3) "At no time has NatWest (overdraft) ever been specifically secured on the stadium"


This seems contradictory to me and accords with the Bank's version (much as I despise RBS). i.e. The Bank believed their credit line (overdraft) was secured against the 'Club's assets in whatever form' (Hood's own words) and once we sold the leasehold to Odsal (presumably without informing the Bank) they withdrew the overdraft because of the reduction in security such a sale represents.

RankPostsTeam
International Star2524
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 201114 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2023Feb 2023LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
Black Backgrounds/Earl%20Sinclair.gif
Veni, Vidi, Spurius brutus detruncavi I came, I saw, I tore the thick b4st4rds limb from limb Bradford Bulls - the polished turds of SL since 2012:Black Backgrounds/Earl%20Sinclair.gif



Took long enough for him to tell us that, instead he kept quiet.

It would have taken him an hour to compose and post that on the bulls website right after the announcement was made, so we all knew where the club stood

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach326No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200816 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jul 2020Jul 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
39852_1301009793.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_39852.jpg



Think he has been rather busy, give the guy some credit for doing this.

Onward and forward, lets save the Bulls COYB

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman14145No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200123 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2020Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
45_1302643626.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_45.jpg



A debenture is a floating charge. Which, by definition, is over assets that are NOT fixed, like property, but change from time to time.

You secure a loan on specific property by means of a fixed charge (mortgage).

At the time the debenture was put in place, there WAS no property asset to give a fixed charge over.

And one was never granted even once there was. (Source: Companies House).

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach4035
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2024Jan 2023LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
30148_1289234681.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_30148.jpg



If you're busy fighting a fire, it might take someone slightly removed from the situation to help you direct the water better? Maybe he got a bit of outside advice today that he didn't have yesterday?

Any clarification is welcome, even more would be good.

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman14145No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200123 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2020Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
45_1302643626.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_45.jpg



This seems contradictory to me and accords with the Bank's version (much as I despise RBS). i.e. The Bank believed their credit line (overdraft) was secured against the 'Club's assets in whatever form' (Hood's own words) and once we sold the leasehold to Odsal (presumably without informing the Bank) they withdrew the overdraft because of the reduction in security such a sale represents.'"
]

Not at all.

A bank can only realise its security in the event of insolvency (or other non payment).

The value of the long lease with the council, in the event of insolvency, was more or less zero, to the best of my knowledge. Since insolvency would have voided the lease and the stadium revert fully to the council to do with as they saw fit.

RankPostsTeam
International Star60No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 201213 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jul 2016Feb 2014LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Perhaps he wasn't aware of the incorrect information that was being put around until someone informed him. Anyway it's good he has clarified the situation. It was strange to think the club would do that without thinking it through.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1008No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2015Sep 2014LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
20201.jpg
"I'm 49, I've had a brain haemorrhage and a triple bypass and I could still go out and play a reasonable game of rugby union. But I wouldn't last 30 seconds in rugby league." - Graham Lowe (1995):20201.jpg



Quote: Adeybull "A debenture is a floating charge. Which, by definition, is over assets that are NOT fixed, like property, but change from time to time.

You secure a loan on specific property by means of a fixed charge (mortgage).

At the time the debenture was put in place, there WAS no property asset to give a fixed charge over.

And one was never granted even once there was. (Source


Interesting then that Hood states that the debenture was against 'all of the Club's assets in [iwhatever[/i form'.

Your argument seems to hinge on whether the lease is a fixed asset or not? I would suggest the Bank's view is that it is not and therefore would come under the terms of the original debenture as suggested also by Hood's statement?

If your argument is right Adey and the Bank had no reason to believe the lease formed part of their security against the credit line they were offering, your position also seems to contradict another part of Hood's statement where he states:

"the bank now had substantial extra security in the form of land and buildings worth multiple millions of pounds"

I could give them the benefit of the doubt, but this statement doesn't help clarify things, so perhaps you should start drafting their statements on these issues.

Ultimately I'm afraid this still looks to me like poor financial management - not discussing the RFL purchase of the lease with the Bank and the Bank withdrawing credit as they're entitled to do (unfortunately).

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach9986No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200520 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2019Aug 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
13747_1541715311.jpg
[b:3g5rrn89](and I feel fine)[/b:3g5rrn89]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_13747.jpg



Why all the talk about RBS then? It's NatWest? Or am I being dim?
My account is in NatWest in Bradford. I think I might be going to close it tomorrow.

RankPostsTeam
International Chairman14145No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 200123 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2020Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
45_1302643626.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_45.jpg



Company's net assets INCREASE significantly in January, due to profit on sale of lease (book value zero).

Bank has personal guarantees anyway to cover more than what is owed, quite apart from security over all the assets anyway, ranking only behind preferntial creditors (effectively employees to a certain limit).

Lease (as was) of doubtful value, if any at all, for purposes of security.

Bank pulls facility.

I'm struggling to see how this equates with "bad financial management", tbh.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach326No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200816 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jul 2020Jul 2020LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
39852_1301009793.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_39852.jpg



Quote: debaser "Why all the talk about RBS then? It's NatWest? Or am I being dim?
My account is in NatWest in Bradford. I think I might be going to close it tomorrow.'"


rlhttps://www.natwest.com/global/about-us.ashxrl

RankPostsTeam
Club Coach9986No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200520 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2019Aug 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
13747_1541715311.jpg
[b:3g5rrn89](and I feel fine)[/b:3g5rrn89]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_13747.jpg



Quote: Minorman "rlhttps://www.natwest.com/global/about-us.ashxrl'"
o

Right, s. That's my account closed then.

I've been meaning to shut it anyway, ever since they f*****d me over when I was a student.

23 years ago.

RankPostsTeam
International Star182
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 201213 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2022Oct 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
66378_1329042059.jpeg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_66378.jpeg



Quote: Adeybull "Company's net assets INCREASE significantly in January, due to profit on sale of lease (book value zero).

Bank has personal guarantees anyway to cover more than what is owed, quite apart from security over all the assets anyway, ranking only behind preferntial creditors (effectively employees to a certain limit).

Lease (as was) of doubtful value, if any at all, for purposes of security.

Bank pulls facility.

I'm struggling to see how this equates with "bad financial management", tbh.'"


Why do you think the bank pulled the facility if there was no change, was it just getting debt off the RBS book?

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1008No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2015Sep 2014LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
20201.jpg
"I'm 49, I've had a brain haemorrhage and a triple bypass and I could still go out and play a reasonable game of rugby union. But I wouldn't last 30 seconds in rugby league." - Graham Lowe (1995):20201.jpg



Quote: Adeybull "Company's net assets INCREASE significantly in January, due to profit on sale of lease (book value zero).

Bank has personal guarantees anyway to cover more than what is owed, quite apart from security over all the assets anyway, ranking only behind preferntial creditors (effectively employees to a certain limit).

Lease (as was) of doubtful value, if any at all, for purposes of security.

Bank pulls facility.

I'm struggling to see how this equates with "bad financial management", tbh.'"


Two simple questions Adey,

Did they speak with the Bank about any impacts the sale of the lease might have on their overdraft facility?

Do you consider Hood's statement to be clear and to show a good understanding of the way their overdraft facility was structured?

83 posts in 7 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin
83 posts in 7 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


3.12744140625:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
3m
2024
Butcher
5
6m
Shopping list for 2025
Sebasteeno
5573
8m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2593
9m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Sebasteeno
4015
9m
Leeds away first up
Butcher
41
20m
Dons Squad 2025
Jemmo
13
23m
2025 Recruitment
Pyrah123
195
24m
Film game
Boss Hog
5632
39m
Castleford sack Lingard
FIL
8
39m
Dual Reg
Spookisback
9
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
2024
Butcher
5
1m
Castleford sack Lingard
FIL
8
2m
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
Clearwing
13
2m
Leeds away first up
Butcher
41
3m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2593
4m
Salford
rubber ducki
12
4m
Planning for next season
J7P1
175
4m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63221
4m
War of the Roses
ratticusfinc
30
4m
Rumours thread
Scarlet Pimp
2515
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
2024
Butcher
5
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
Butcher
5
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
ColD
2
TODAY
Catalan Away
jonh
5
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
rubber ducki
12
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
Butcher
41
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Butcher
20
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
TODAY
England 5 - 0 Ireland
Sadfish
1
TODAY
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To Newcastle
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
390
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
525
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1265
England's Women Demolish The W..
1090
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1329
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1123
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1383
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1923
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2141
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2379
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1954
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2190
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2655
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2086
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2159
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.65M +11,822 80,15514,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
 Thu 13th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Fri 14th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Hull KR
v
Castleford
20:00
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sat 15th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
St.Helens
v
Salford
 Sun 16th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Warrington
 Thu 20th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Wakefield
v
Hull KR
 Fri 21st Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Warrington
v
Catalans
20:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
 Sat 22nd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
15:00
Salford
v
Leeds
20:00
Castleford
v
St.Helens
 Sun 23rd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
14:30
Leigh
v
Huddersfield
 Thu 6th Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
20:00
Hull FC
v
Leigh
 Fri 7th Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
20:00
Castleford
v
Salford
20:00
St.Helens
v
Hull KR
 Sat 8th Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
17:30
Catalans
v
Leeds
 Sun 9th Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
17:30
Warrington
v
Wakefield
17:30
Wigan
v
Huddersfield
 Thu 20th Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R4
20:00
Salford
v
Huddersfield
 Fri 21st Mar 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R4
20:00
St.Helens
v
Warrington
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington-Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
3m
2024
Butcher
5
6m
Shopping list for 2025
Sebasteeno
5573
8m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2593
9m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Sebasteeno
4015
9m
Leeds away first up
Butcher
41
20m
Dons Squad 2025
Jemmo
13
23m
2025 Recruitment
Pyrah123
195
24m
Film game
Boss Hog
5632
39m
Castleford sack Lingard
FIL
8
39m
Dual Reg
Spookisback
9
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
2024
Butcher
5
1m
Castleford sack Lingard
FIL
8
2m
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
Clearwing
13
2m
Leeds away first up
Butcher
41
3m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2593
4m
Salford
rubber ducki
12
4m
Planning for next season
J7P1
175
4m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63221
4m
War of the Roses
ratticusfinc
30
4m
Rumours thread
Scarlet Pimp
2515
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
2024
Butcher
5
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
Butcher
5
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
ColD
2
TODAY
Catalan Away
jonh
5
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
rubber ducki
12
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
Butcher
41
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Butcher
20
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
TODAY
England 5 - 0 Ireland
Sadfish
1
TODAY
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To Newcastle
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
390
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
525
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1265
England's Women Demolish The W..
1090
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1329
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1123
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1383
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1923
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2141
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2379
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1954
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2190
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2655
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2086
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2159


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!