For me the referendum was about freedom and actually voting for the politicians that make the rules we live our lives by might be a novel concept, but it's one I was prepared to believe in!

Whilst I appreciate that the nation's younger demographic voted to remain it's a real shame that they lack the confidence and vision to determine their own place in the world and future in it.

Fortune favours the brave....

This election is all about the establishment. The racist, xenophobic Brexiteers voted against Europe, despite it having little effect on the Tories destroying health, education, social care & massively increasing disparity between rich & poor. The Tories are the establishment, a public school ruling elite with a core who have a hatred of public bodies such as the NHS & state schools, who think it is their divine right to rule & control. This is the establishment people are voting for, an elite with absolutely no connection to the average working person. The EU was anti-establishment in some ways in that it strengthened workers' rights, health & the environment. If people really cared about democracy they would be arguing for devolution to regions in a federal way, similar to Germany.

So you have just called 17.3 million people racists because you don't agree with them.
It is clear that you can not take part in a reasonable debate without insulting people.
If you class yourself as a sensible and reasonable adult you should be ashamed of yourself.

To the moderator. This is the danger of this type of thread. It should now be closed as this above poster has become abusive. Everyone has the right to their opinion but they should not be abusive to others.

This, much as they like to present it in those terms, isn't turning [iagainst[/i the establishment though, Farage, Le Pen and all the others represent the far right of that establishment - they are not separate from it . Their major wish is to further the cause of the haves vis-a-vis the have nots by ending all social and environmental controls.

If you like the idea of no H&S at work, no fall-back social security, zero hours contracts, NHS paid by insurance premiums, companies being above the law (and if we get TTIP, American corporations will be [imaking[/i our laws) and workers having no representation and fracking in your back garden then by all means vote for them. I hope I'm dead before it comes to pass though.

Unfortunately, in the Brexit election & the trump election, it has become increasingly obvious that fortune favours the politicians who can lie the most effectively.

Sadly your post slips into what has become standard social media yah boo sucks insult trading and professional outrage. In fact, tigertot simply said that "The racist, xenophobic Brexiteers voted against..." which they did, as has been more than amply evidenced by their reaction to the result. He did not say nor imply that all Brexiteers are racist or xenophobic.

Above their inbuilt desire to do all this though is their desire to have the reins. So, if they had reason to believe that everyone affected by these policies would actually vote, then they'd either have to curb these instincts or else we'd have a fundamentally different election result to that anticipated.

If everyone who fails to vote in any given constituency for once did so, they would decide the outcome in over 50% of places.

But that will never happen.

To be fair, I think that has always been the case, it's just that the lies have had to become bigger to gain traction.

Sadly, the number of people directly affected, who [iwill[/i vote for them is unbelievable. Working class people who tell me, quite proudly, that they are Tories makes my mind boggle. It's a free election and people vote for who they want, but why anyone would vote against their own best interests baffles me. The rich rarely do, so-called, 'champagne socialists', are very few in number, whilst working class people who vote Conservative must number many millions, or as you say they'd never get in..

I am sure that the combination of dumbing down and the widespread and sad tendency for people to (a) read nothing longer than a sentence (b) take an interest in little of any importance and (c) the rise in an obsession with trivia has made it very easy for the purveyors of fake news to influence millions. So many on social media nowadays are just hopelessly uninformed and as many are also as gullible as Bempton cliffs, we have the rise to power of the idiot, and the nasty bigmouth.

It's not so much the lies are bigger, their media reach is, as is the expanding potential constituency of morons prepared to swallow them.

He did not say that all Brexiteers are rascists but it's a pretty sure bet that all rascists are Brexiteers.

And 17.3 million people. About a 1/4 of the population. How is that a majority? Still makes me furious.

Faux hysteria noted. FA has already corrected your post. What I would say is that every leave person I heard on the radio around Brexit time spoke about their fear of immigration, foreigners taking proud Brit's jobs/houses/hospital beds, & taking back control of laws from foreigners. IMO that is a classic definition of xenophobia. I know a number of people who voted Brexit, some of them I would have to class as friends, but know they are not racist, though they still exhibit an illogical fear of foreign law makers. If that is too much for your obvious sensitive disposition I apologise.
What you will see happen, & is happening, is all those xenophobes & racists will move on to the next faux enemy when we have left Europe & kicked all the forriners out. That will be the unemployed, homeless, long-term ill, prisoners, poor etc. There is a poem written by German priest Martin Niemöller which I suggest you look up.

37% of the total electorate. See earlier

I'm certain the NHS lie caused a swing of 2-3%. That was the final piece of the jigsaw to deliver a Brexit vote.
And a lie of that magnitude was needed to get it. And for a Brexit politician, the end justifies the means because once they'd won, the right wing media would gloss over the lie that delivered Brexit and continue to smear everyone that didn't toe the line.

Eh?

Have a word with yourself.

Tigertot is easily one of (if not THE) most fair minded and intelligent poster I have ever had the fortune to read, on any message board, ever.

The problem nowadays is that people are not allowed to have an opinion because of comments like yours who try to censor anything they disagree with.

I would suggest if you cannot abide by a differing opinion to yours then a message board is not the best place for you to be.