FORUMS > Bradford Bulls > BULLS CHAIRMAN CLARIFIES CLUB'S BANKING RELATIONSHIP |
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| rlhttps://www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/news/5791/BULLS%20CHAIRMAN%20CLARIFIES%20CLUBS%20BANKING%20RELATIONSHIPrl
Thank you Mr Hood
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| Can someone reconcile the assertion made by Hood in sentence 3 with the other two sentences from Hood's statement please?
Hood says that
1) "the Club provided NatWest with a ‘debenture' - a type of ‘mortgage' over all of the Club's assets in whatever form."
2) "the debenture was left in place against the possibility of a new facility perhaps being needed in future."
and yet he asserts
3) "At no time has NatWest (overdraft) ever been specifically secured on the stadium"
This seems contradictory to me and accords with the Bank's version (much as I despise RBS). i.e. The Bank believed their credit line (overdraft) was secured against the 'Club's assets in whatever form' (Hood's own words) and once we sold the leasehold to Odsal (presumably without informing the Bank) they withdrew the overdraft because of the reduction in security such a sale represents.
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| Took long enough for him to tell us that, instead he kept quiet.
It would have taken him an hour to compose and post that on the bulls website right after the announcement was made, so we all knew where the club stood
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| Think he has been rather busy, give the guy some credit for doing this.
Onward and forward, lets save the Bulls COYB
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| A debenture is a floating charge. Which, by definition, is over assets that are NOT fixed, like property, but change from time to time.
You secure a loan on specific property by means of a fixed charge (mortgage).
At the time the debenture was put in place, there WAS no property asset to give a fixed charge over.
And one was never granted even once there was. (Source: Companies House).
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| If you're busy fighting a fire, it might take someone slightly removed from the situation to help you direct the water better? Maybe he got a bit of outside advice today that he didn't have yesterday?
Any clarification is welcome, even more would be good.
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| This seems contradictory to me and accords with the Bank's version (much as I despise RBS). i.e. The Bank believed their credit line (overdraft) was secured against the 'Club's assets in whatever form' (Hood's own words) and once we sold the leasehold to Odsal (presumably without informing the Bank) they withdrew the overdraft because of the reduction in security such a sale represents.'" ]
Not at all.
A bank can only realise its security in the event of insolvency (or other non payment).
The value of the long lease with the council, in the event of insolvency, was more or less zero, to the best of my knowledge. Since insolvency would have voided the lease and the stadium revert fully to the council to do with as they saw fit.
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| Perhaps he wasn't aware of the incorrect information that was being put around until someone informed him. Anyway it's good he has clarified the situation. It was strange to think the club would do that without thinking it through.
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| Quote: Adeybull "A debenture is a floating charge. Which, by definition, is over assets that are NOT fixed, like property, but change from time to time.
You secure a loan on specific property by means of a fixed charge (mortgage).
At the time the debenture was put in place, there WAS no property asset to give a fixed charge over.
And one was never granted even once there was. (Source
Interesting then that Hood states that the debenture was against 'all of the Club's assets in [iwhatever[/i form'.
Your argument seems to hinge on whether the lease is a fixed asset or not? I would suggest the Bank's view is that it is not and therefore would come under the terms of the original debenture as suggested also by Hood's statement?
If your argument is right Adey and the Bank had no reason to believe the lease formed part of their security against the credit line they were offering, your position also seems to contradict another part of Hood's statement where he states:
"the bank now had substantial extra security in the form of land and buildings worth multiple millions of pounds"
I could give them the benefit of the doubt, but this statement doesn't help clarify things, so perhaps you should start drafting their statements on these issues.
Ultimately I'm afraid this still looks to me like poor financial management - not discussing the RFL purchase of the lease with the Bank and the Bank withdrawing credit as they're entitled to do (unfortunately).
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| Why all the talk about RBS then? It's NatWest? Or am I being dim?
My account is in NatWest in Bradford. I think I might be going to close it tomorrow.
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| Company's net assets INCREASE significantly in January, due to profit on sale of lease (book value zero).
Bank has personal guarantees anyway to cover more than what is owed, quite apart from security over all the assets anyway, ranking only behind preferntial creditors (effectively employees to a certain limit).
Lease (as was) of doubtful value, if any at all, for purposes of security.
Bank pulls facility.
I'm struggling to see how this equates with "bad financial management", tbh.
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| Quote: debaser "Why all the talk about RBS then? It's NatWest? Or am I being dim?
My account is in NatWest in Bradford. I think I might be going to close it tomorrow.'"
rlhttps://www.natwest.com/global/about-us.ashxrl
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| Quote: Minorman "rlhttps://www.natwest.com/global/about-us.ashxrl'" o
Right, s. That's my account closed then.
I've been meaning to shut it anyway, ever since they f*****d me over when I was a student.
23 years ago.
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| Quote: Adeybull "Company's net assets INCREASE significantly in January, due to profit on sale of lease (book value zero).
Bank has personal guarantees anyway to cover more than what is owed, quite apart from security over all the assets anyway, ranking only behind preferntial creditors (effectively employees to a certain limit).
Lease (as was) of doubtful value, if any at all, for purposes of security.
Bank pulls facility.
I'm struggling to see how this equates with "bad financial management", tbh.'"
Why do you think the bank pulled the facility if there was no change, was it just getting debt off the RBS book?
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| Quote: Adeybull "Company's net assets INCREASE significantly in January, due to profit on sale of lease (book value zero).
Bank has personal guarantees anyway to cover more than what is owed, quite apart from security over all the assets anyway, ranking only behind preferntial creditors (effectively employees to a certain limit).
Lease (as was) of doubtful value, if any at all, for purposes of security.
Bank pulls facility.
I'm struggling to see how this equates with "bad financial management", tbh.'"
Two simple questions Adey,
Did they speak with the Bank about any impacts the sale of the lease might have on their overdraft facility?
Do you consider Hood's statement to be clear and to show a good understanding of the way their overdraft facility was structured?
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