Given the thread on Dixon and Foster I thought we could expand a little further here.

From the last crop of Academy products to hit Saints in the last 3-4 years I would say that Lomax/Makinson have nailed themselves a regular starting spot, with Gaskell/ Wheeler being just around the starting 17 and Foster still in with a chance but looking less likely to get another shot.

I'd argue that if we are producing 2 or 3 youngsters every 5 years that can hold down a starting spot that's a pretty good result. Losing Graham and Eastmond has skewed the number of starting homegrown players in our team, but that if you like is outside the control of Saints as we can't compete with other competitions salaries for every single player.

I would argue that the Eastmond bunch of players has probably run it's course now with the likes of Ashurst/Dixon/Forester being shipped out, we did not produce another forward like Roby/Graham/Clough. But then if you think about it, it was about time we had some backs as Bar Wellens our academy has not produced a back for some time that could hold down a first team spot.

Magennis I'm not sure whether he will make the grade but even if he does not. 2 Full first team players in 5 years is not bad IMHO. It would have been more if Eastmond had not taken the Union $ and it could still be more if another one or two of Wheeler/Gaskell/Foster get back in next year.

Just for comparison at the weekend Saints had 6 homegrown products in their line up.
Warrington had 4 (W) C. Rileyx2 (U) G. O'Brien (U) B. Harrison (SR) M. Cooper (they count Briers as homegrown but I'm not having any of those shenagins)
Wigan had 9 (SO) S. Tomkins (W) J. Charnley (W) D. Goulding (U) S. O'Loughlin (SR) L. Farrell (SR) C. Tuson
(H) M. McIlorum (SR) L. Mossop (U) L. Tomkins


In the end you have to play your best players and I am not a beleiver in everyone having to be homegrown, but it does help you with strength in depth and is a good indicator of your academies strengths and weakness's. I think the turn out from our academy whilst not at the level of Wigan's is still pulling it's weight and is providing Saints with a bright future.

I'm not sure what your point is? You say we've not produced a forward from this generation, yet Forster has signed a new contract and isn't leaving and Maggenis is in the squad at least.

You then say we've not produced a back that could hold a first team spot down for a while, yet you mention in your first sentance that Tom Makinson has done exactly that.

Maybe it's just me because it's Monday morning, but you've really confused me.

We have no structure in place to develop the youngsters coming through; if they are succeeding it is in spite of the set up at saints. Other clubs do invest in there youth by sending them out on dual registration or loan with other super league clubs from my recollection we have done this less than a handful of times in the past few years and our feeder club appears to be Swinton.
The kids have been used as cannon fodder to prop the team up whilst the money was spent on the new stadium with McManus putting the spin on it that he was investing in home grown players.
Time will tell how many mistakes have been made, the current one being Matty Smith who was released 2 years prior, whether or not you think he should be back at Saints is immaterial, the fact is that Saints have tried to get him back but he has decided to go to Wigan.
I often read the posts on here and wonder how many posts are made by the Saints spin doctors? The minute there are negative posts about the kids leaving, Mike Rush or McManus the spin begins.

The one thing we let ourselves down in is the build of the players. Apart from Jammer, when did a physical freak last come through? Wigan's kids are dropping like genetically enhanced Frankenstein's monsters in comparison to our svelte players.

It may be a confused garble, but my point was that I think we are doing ok and dispite having to let the likes of Ashurst, dixon and forester go, this should not be seen as a failure of our youth system, as we have produced pack players before and will do again.

But the production of backs that can make the grade is not something we had been doing in a long time so the fact that we have produced a lot of half's and backs recently, but fewer forwards does not repressent an imbalance, but the evening out of a longer term imbalance.

Greenwood looks a lump and a half and Jones is a fair size for a centre, but yes, we did seem to get a raft of very middle wieght players coming through at one point.

Forster looks good and heavy and, you never know, the irish giant may come good.

I think the problem some fans have is that they've bashed Wigan for releasing youth players who, frankly, weren't good enough to hold down a regular place in the team. This leaves them in a difficult position when we've done it.

Smith was released because he is not a top class half back and Eastmond had more potential, the fact that Eastmond didn't work out is immaterial because for me Gaskell and Lomax are better than Smith anyway.

We've not let one player go that has come back to bite us on the backside yet.

Bang on.

Like the look of Walker a young reserve prop, million times better than the irish lad McCloskey who is Phil Adamson mark 2. Big slow & cumbersome. Percival looks a quality centre but physically a couple of years from playing at superleague level.

His brother might be worth a look, then...

I think that the expectations on players from expansion areas is too high. Players like Walker play in a big rugby league town and have had the benefit from years of youth coaching. McCloskey and Cross have been picked out of a village Rugby Union team from a non RL country. The fact they can keep up at all is an achievement. As a result of Saints picking up these boys Ireland get two real Irish players that they can play instead of Yorkshiremen with Irish grandparents. We should take their signing for what they are, Saints doing their bit for International Rugby League and the expansion of the sport.

I agree with you as well.

Some players will become superstars and some will just be cover and squad fodder before moving on. You don't know which players fit in which catagory, Ste Tyrer and James Roby are good examples. We have a number of good young play makers coming through, going back to players that did not make the cut previously has no merit.