Well Saints can cover both angles of viewpoint winning it or appearance. Obviously from some wire fans perspective winning it 4 times in the past has far less significance on winning it once some time in the future.

First loser, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8362729th, still win nothing.

I'm sorry. Are you drunk?

Sorry, sorry, I misread it.

I didn't realise you were talking about Wire.

Apologies.

The point some are making is we have won it, 4 times indeed. Wire are yet to even feature.

Because we were a club on the brink for a sizable amount of superleague, mid table for another and only really been contenders since 2010, not because we are bottlers but because we simply were not good enough to compete with the top 4-5 teams in the league, remember you buying players like Sculthorpe and Fozzard of us, and losing quality players like Harris to Leeds.

Bottlers is a myth, the majority of games we have played in the playoffs we've always been the bookies underdogs, only one i think we went into favourite was last year.

Ateotd though, you played an extra game for the same reward, bugger all, and 5 losing finals is the same as not being in them.

I'm not saying you're not on the brink of achieving it, just it's laughable that a contingent of your fans can even question our record in the GF having never been in it. It's akin to somebody at home watching the Olympics saying coming 4th in the 100 metre sprint is rubbish.

Edit: A participant going out in the semi finals saying finishing 4th is rubbish is probably more accurate.

No, it's actually a lot more expensive than not having been in them, trust me

What a boring debate this is...

Wire fan: 'Getting beat in the GF is just first loser'

Saints fan: 'At least we got there'

Well obviously the two sets of fans are going to have differing viewpoints!!

ATEOTD I'd take contesting Grand Finals and losing than going out pathetically in the play-offs year on year. We play the regular rounds for one reason: to get to OT and have that chance to win that one off game.

you used the "form is temporary, class is permanent" angle. So it has alot to do with it. I understand your opinion a bit more that you feel your pack as a unit is better, which you're fully entitled too. My point is and I think you would agree if you were being totally honest is that not many of your forwards would get into a Wire seventeen.

Saints have some very good forwards when looking at them as individuals/on paper, that's why we roll over lesser teams so easily. The problem is our application at the moment against teams that combine game plan with an increased motivation.

I've no doubt that players in the saints squad would be perfectly capable of swapping into the wire squad and performing just as well as your guys. Your club's just in a better place at the moment on the field.

Stop being so sensible!!!

Don't you know this is a cock eyed debate about who's got the best 6 or 10 at the moment? If your 'losing' then you introduce the GF/Play Off v CC arguement and if your still looking for reassurance then you can throw in something from left field, "our stadium cladding is better than your cladding"

Don't mention the C word around here else a meltdown may start.