Thanks, cant argue with any of that, shame to see a saints team so down on it heels, can echo what a lot are saying, some of Browns positional selections are baffling. Almost became a quiz as to where Wellens was supposed to be playing.
Hicks was his usual baffling self as well, gave some very odd decisions at times.
The way its shaping up in the league its not beyond possibility we'll meet again this year.

It shouldn't but will McManus do anything about it?

The ref was poor but no excuse.

I was shocked that he changed his decision for a try. He gave a drop out them 20secs later gave a try.

Eden took the kicks well which I was shocked at

God help Eamon he has enough on his plate at present. I think he may look to throw his hand in when he returns. The whole fabric of the club is wobbling even to the point which we have no luck with the weather, Friday night home game end of June and the rain and cold returns again. I am struggling for anything positive at present my wife and daughter have had season tickets since Langtree opened as new supporters I have just been pleading with them to stick with it and give it another season. This is not one defeat which on paper was quite a close game it has been one game similar to this after another.

I reckon McManus will want a few answers on his return, he already mentioned in the programme he has a tolerance point on personnel attitude and effort, how much of this is to pacify the supporters we will soon know.

For me I would forget about a top 8 finish this year and start giving our younger players stable fixed positions ready for the next season. If that means losing every game from now on then so be it.

I would drop La Franc, Lance, TP, Howarth, O,Brien, our conditioner and coach cannot be taken into 2014. We should be looking at our playing structure, tactics, game plans, conditioning schedules from 2000 to 2006 and try to emulate them. Obviously we don,t have the players of quality to give the same effect, but at least it would be better than this fragmented, confusing load of rubbish we are having to endure week in week out.

We don't need to emulate the great saints team as its totally different team even with the total difference in ability of the players. We need this team to play the way that suits the players we have, it needs to find its own identity, work on things that work for this team and not what teams of years gone by did.

The balance needs sorting for a start and we need to keep players in their positions and stop moving them about.

I was strangely enthusiastic before last night, safe to say that was soon burst like a balloon. I knew it wasn't our night from that first KR try (looked a bit baffling) and our attack was shocking, we put the ball down far too often and Eden's try was too easy. The lads looked way too scared of Paterson.

Don,t think this will work though we need a good team structure and game plan. Playing the way that suits the players hasn,t worked we have ended up with lots of individual players doing there own thing with lots of one man rugby and unintelligent play. I don,t think the team needs to find its own identity, its already in the Saints DNA, but we seem to be hell bent on changing it. We tried a similar thing in 1982 and that didn,t work either.
Look at Warrington, Smith was a great admirer of the Saints Way of play and to a certain extent has emulated it with great attacking plays very similar to how we use to be, add the right attitude and that is a recipe for a successful side.
We have lost all stability and approach to how the game should be played, 5 years of experimentation trying to fit square pegs in round holes is enough.

I get what your saying and agree but this team can not play expansive rugby, its not good enough.

Tony smith is blessed to have a chairmen that has ambition and will back him with transfers.

Wasn't that the one where he awarded Hull KR a penalty for offside and not a drop out. He awarded the penalty and then Dobson politely reminded the referee that we'd crossed the line for a try??

Does Stirlingshire Saints ever frequent these boards anymore? Think I asked the same question last time after the cup game, he famously said everytime HKR would beat Saints he would bare his Iestyn 'Arris' on the town hall steps.

Can't beat characters like that.

16-8 penalty count too, unbelievable.

Something like that, I don't know what he was doing but certainly changed his decision.

But I think to a certain extent we could improve it quite easily. Our attack is flat as a pancake most of the time which means a defence with good line speed is in our faces after 2 passes. Our ruck speed is probably the slowest in the league due to our attitude of surrendering at the tackle giving the defence lots of time to get set.

Our support play is atrocious, don,t know if this is the problem of lazy attitude or inability to read the game but we have plenty of players who create half breaks in Roby, Wilkin, Walmsley, Manu, Soliola with no backs to follow up an offload, this happens quite a lot in most games.

We,ve had a couple of games were we have solved the above problems but can,t mentally sustain it for more than 40 mins in a game.

Until we get the right structures and game plans of some sort we will not be able to control a game, I remember Daniel Anderson critical of the team when we went away from his game plan for a 5 minutes out of the 80 mins Times have changed we only have a game plan for 5 mins out of the 80 mins.

I've already made that call and it saddens me as I've been a season ticket holder for a long time, we've been pretty terrible to watch since Potter took over (we were a bit easier on the eye for some of Simmons time) and I just dont enjoy the games enough to justify the outlay. I'll just be picking and choosing my games next year based on how the money is, how the weather is and if we have a team that look like they can be d.