Those Grand Finals don't mean a great deal unless the players progress from the U20's to the 1st team and then develop their game to SL and hopefully International standard. There's been plenty of good players at that level that simply haven't stepped up and performed at 1st grade level, for whatever reason. Now I'm not saying we have superior youngsters, or vice versa, but I think we have a good set of young players and are producing much more in both quality and quantity than we did 10 years ago, ALOT more.

For example I wouldn't take one of your youth developed players over James Roby and James Graham, and that includes O'Loughlin and Tomkins.

As long we get one or two first team squad ready players every one or two years, I couldn't care less about trophies at that level. Nice for the players and coaching staff, but in the grand scheme of things pretty irrelevant.

you are a troll , end of. You derail threads and you are just about as biased as it's possible to be. You make the odd decent point and you know a fair bit about u18/u20's which is tarnished by your complete wigan bias. your just a more intelligent version of nikos.

p.s you can stick your u20's GF wins where the sun doesnt shine if our lads come through to the only team that really matters (the first team) and do the business for us.

Our kids are doing a great job and I for one am very proud of them. We have one of the best (the best if you listen to Phil Clarke) youth set-ups in RL. Long may it continue. We are producing them so fast we can't possibly keep them all and unfortunately some have had to move on. Some players are late developers and it must be very hard for the coaches to decide who to keep and who to let go. It is a lottery at times but for everyone who fails to improve etc. there is always another one or two to take their place.

Yes you do all the feckin time.
Your just a bit better at wrapping It up that's all.
Some can see that,some cant.
Your a one eyed pie eater,which Is fine,Its the pretending your not that p1sses most off.

I'm so glad its not just me who see's it

Absolutely.
Couldn't agree more.

As for the Saints kids, they have really produced the goods this season.
Fantastic performances to be where we are in the table with our injury list.

I've lost count of the number of championship winning academy players who've failed to make the grade. I've similarly lost count of the number of modestly gifted youngsters who've gone on to become stars of SL (Roby and Wellens being two obvious examples).

Rogues can favour who he likes. The truth is form in the reserve grades isn't worth a carrot next to form in SL. Wigan's kids may go on to become yet another lost generation. Ditto Saints. Indeed, it could be that one of the less well-thought-of academies achieves the most success.

Moreover, it's utterly naive to think an entire academy will turn out "better" than another. Given that these kids are all at different ages and mature mentally and physically at entirely different rates it's impossible to draw any rational conclusions.

We will know for sure once these lads have reached the peak of their powers somewhere around 22 or 23. Until that point all arguments are completely worthless.

I don't detest Wigan fans, but I imagine I feel the same about them as most of Victorian London did about the Elephant Man.

You mean you worry about the safety issues surrounding large crowds at popular attractons? I know we have the biggest attendances in the league but it's fine mate, no need to worry.

I have to agree as a Saints fan living in Billinge. I have a lot of mates who don't know anything at all about rugby ( I.E. Wiganers) but we get on fine until derby day. Then for 80 mins we don't speak, or we take the mick out of each other, then it's forgotten until next time.

I stopped reading after this.

King of the back handed compliments. Everything is BUT Wigan do it better. This youngster signed for Saints because Wigan did not want him or he could not get a game here blah blah, he has been a Wigan fan all his life blah blah.