Our problems at the moment come down to the fact that we've had mediocre coaching for the last 3.5 years, and a few players who think they run the place and have now left us with very much less than mediocre coaching until the end of the season. We desperately need a top coach, a few key signings and a change in attitude to be right back at the top again. We look to maybe have the first 2 in the bag and hopefully the 3rd will follow with the application of boots to backsides. Wholesale culling is unnecessary and would indeed knock us back years if it happened. Most of our current squad including most the usual hate targets are good enough to lift trophies again. The usual numpty calls for any U20 player we can get our hands on to get a shirt instead are depressing as usual. I'd be happy to write the rest of the season off and try a few youngsters in the team to see what they're made of, but entire 3/4 lines and halfback partnerships made up of kids would get smashed every game and have their careers crumble away into dust in no time. And at the end of the day we still only need to win 3 games at the end of the season to be "champions" after all - not likely with the current coaching incumbents, but stranger things have happened...

Your not far wrong sadly -

I'd take Patten over Wello , Broughton over Meli or Gardner, Moon over any of our centre's (apart from Jones as he looks like he has great potential) and Holdsworth or Matty Smith over Lance.

I remember now. You're the Crowman out of Worzel Gummidge. You must me given all the straw men you're churning out lately. Who are these "numpties" calling for "wholesale" replacement of first teamers by academy lads? I mean, several people have called for Shenton to be dropped in favour of Jones (who has looked [iat the very least[/i as capable whilst three times as enthusiastic). Then there's giving young Swift a chance - who with a double hat-trick has, you know, FORM to back him up.

Aside from that - who else? A few calls for Forster (never a bad idea to give a young prop some experience). Bringing back Foster (who already possesses plenty of experience) and of course Gaskell - who is the only fully functional half back at the club.

The truth is there are very few realistic academy options outside of those mentioned and everyone knows it. But carry on creating this fantasy world of wholesale persecution.

It's not so much the number of games played as the context. Every play off and grand final game played is worth 10 of a normal, low intensity SL game.

The likes of Foster and Makinson are established in the first team, they've been around the block enough times to be relied upon, given that the alternatives are no better and even more prone to errors. I'd go with youth in the backs next season, unless we can sign someone genuinely worth taking one of their places.

Oh do come now - read any of dozens of posts on here and bask in the impassioned calls for Wellens, Meli, Shenton, Wheeler, Gardner and Hohaia to be run out of the team on a rail immediately. How do you think these same people would propose we replace all 6 of these players exactly?

Hint: it's not with "straw men"....

You've listed six players. I could replace half of them with established players (Foster, Makinson & Gaskell). Two more I could swap for players who possess genuine form - Swift & Jones.

Hardly a torrent of wet-behind-the-ears newbies.

Let's be honest - you're making this up.

So.... Your backline for the rest of the season would, I assume, be something like:

Ashe
Makinson
Jones
Foster
Swift
Gaskell
Lomax

All you would achieve by playing that lot for the rest of the season would be:

a. Make a lot of senior players who (whether you like it or not) will feature strongly under Brown very unhappy and increase personal tensions in an already stuggling squad.
b. Kill the confidence and possibly entire future career of half a dozen young players as they were smashed into oblivion every other week.
c. Have the RLFans server melting with the number of rabid posts from Saints fans complaining over why we were losing most weeks, playing so many inexperienced kids together, giving away so many soft tries out wide as a result and doing nothing about it, and throwing away our otherwise nailed-on top 8 place.

Does not matter where you put these players, they just need to show us they have pride when things go bad. Last night the heads went down after the second try. Pathetic.

Worth a go - especially a Hohaia/Gaskell 7/6 partnership.

Ouch........... you must be really fed up

Thing is Saints types, I don't think you are a million miles away from getting back on the horse.

Saints' primary problem is being easy to read/control in attack. Virtually all sides now play with their fullback as an additional ball handler/attacker popping up either side of the PTB making defences guess/stretch to counter this. With Saints attacking from around marker/first receiver it is easier to concentrate defences around that area to suffocate the attack. The loss of Graham and his ability to draw players in whilst tipping the ball on has also compounded this.

If Roby gets a roll on from dummy half he will still hurt the opposition, control it, and he is pretty damn nullified. Lomax too, can be got at due to him being your only playmaker and standing close to the PTB at first receiver. Hohaia at stand-off is purely wasteful, give him space/broken defences and his footwork and speed will be a far greater asset.

My two'penneth: Hohaia to fullback, where he appears to have played for NZ/Warriors for the past three years (reasons as above); Wellens to loose forward, his experience and pretty decent passing game would give Lomax some much needed support in the middle of the pitch, a variation on Sinfield, if you will. I think his defensive contribution would also lighten the load on Roby, keeping him fresher in attack. Finally; Gaskell (possibly Wilkin) in at stand-off. It would give a little more control/organisation to the side and leesen the responsibilty on Lomax, who appears to be tasked to do everything.

This is obviously a short term solution, as I I think any side would struggle bringing two young halfbacks through together. I certainly think you need to bring in an experienced halfback next season to aid the development of Lomax/Gaskell.

It's not without risk. But provided Hohaia cedes responsibility for organising the attack (and kicking) to Gaskell and concentrates on giving him the quickest and most reliable service possible we may be able to salvage something from the season.

I'm not entirely happy about putting so much responsibility on Gaskell's shoulders (although I do think he can deal with it better than Lomax) but we're kind of out of options. Besides, he is the future and the sooner we gear our game around his talent the quicker we can gain some attacking traction.

I can see your house from up here

You are now starting to achieve the same status level as robinson on these boards.

Where is that clown smilie when you need it!!!!!!!