FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > NRL > SL - How to change it? |
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| For me:
1 - Get rid of the pointless Friendlies over winter. messing about vs Wakey, Fev and the USA side (with all due respect)
2 - Get an annual 'Auckland 9's' style tournament going. Increases skill, fitness, playing against higher level opposition. Sells tickets, crowd favourite, massive marketing opportunity.
OR
2a - Get SL clubs to play in the Auckland 9's (if they need a holiday/warm weather training) - makes sense.
3 - Ditch WCC completely unless BEFORE or AFTER the season. Not during the SL season. Whoever decided that timing needs lobotomising.
4 - Get rid of dual-registration.
5 - Tri-Nations EVERY YEAR
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73680_1515668157.jpg [size=85:3idnpzvq]Cup Winners: 1914, 1982, 2005, 2016, 2017.
Cup Runners-Up: 1908, 1909, 1910, 1922, 1923, 1959, 1960, 1980, 1983, 1985, 2008, 2013.
League Champions: 1920, 1921, 1936, 1956, 1958, 1983.
League Runners-Up: 1957, 1982, 1984, 2006.[/size:3idnpzvq]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_73680.jpg |
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| 6 - Player Pool
The numbers playing and aligned to SL clubs is miniscule in comparison. The average NRL Club have more juniors plying their trade than the whole of SL combined. We also have academies only playing at two age groups, and some academies (like my own) merging.
7 - Decent Amateur Clubs
Read through the amateur clubs of where players started and the same ones crop up again and again, of course with the odd exception. We need more amateur clubs to attain the standard of the few that provide us with the majority of the England side. Improve their infrastructure, coaching, philosophy etc, encourage to have teams at all age groups.
8 - Pathways to SL
Academies stop at 19, we have the U23 comp this year so we can see how that goes, and Dual Reg system, but do we have a comp that is comparable to the QC or NSWC?
9 - Non-Heartlands
We now have junior clubs all over the country, but if a talented junior turns up at one of these teams, what is his pathway to SL? London used to provide a decent pathway for youngsters in that area, and we see them in SL now, but what about now? Can more be done in this regard?
10 - Our best players either playing in the NRL or injured doesn't help
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| Unfortunately most changes will be just tinkering and last season we saw a major change which given enough time may see an improvement in standards at the top end with the introduction of the Super 8s.
For the last 2 /3 years it has been clear that Burrow and Mcguire have been in decline and yet they have still retained their places at a top club because their diminishing skills are still superior to players from the majority of other clubs. They got to a peak and never had to improve and further. The same can be said for players at the other top clubs. In order for the standards of the top players to improve they need to be pushed and tested on a weekly basis. For this to happen the standards need to be raised at ALL levels below them. In order to do this I think the RFL need to bring in a comprehensive coaching review where a full time England coach and assistants have full and open access to coaching at all clubs and in Aus with a view to improving practices and facilities in all UK clubs - even holding back a portion of central club payments from all clubs to ensure that money is available to put things in place.
You could liken SL clubs to people being chased by a lion. You dont have to be the fastest - only faster than thos around you. With SL clubs however, the lion didnt kill the clubs but said better luck next time and nothing changed!
Would P&R have changed things - I dont think so - too many clubs would be thinking that an expensive pair of Nikes would help them outrun the lion instead of concentrating on improving fitness and stamina and still be caught by the lion.
Raising the salary cap isnt the answer - the same players would play at the same clubs but just be paid more!
Will the Super 8s help - maybe? the top 8 clubs will have to work harder to get to the top but this extra work required in the Super 8s may subsequantly make it easier the following year prior to the split. Lets give it time and see what happens (and not just another 2 years - lets see what happens long term and assess it in ten years before we tinker again).
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| We can't. The position in society that the sport holds in England and Australia are so different that we can never be on equal footing.
What I think we should be able to do is get 17 players that can match the best 17 Australians.
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| It's not about the salary cap, it'd help retain a few English players but it wouldn't be dramatic. Think, right now we'd have the burgesses, James Graham and a few others. Prime example of why it doesn't work is Greg Eden going to Australia and becoming a far better player, it isn't because he's being paid more, it's because everything about their setup is greater.
It's simple, we need more people playing league in the country. Not sure how that'd be done but it's vital we do so. Australians live a so called 'outdoor lifestyle' which lends itself to playing sports like RL.
Furthermore Australian players are so much more well rounded than English players. Example: Zak Hardaker. He's a fantastic defensive fullback and is a brilliant runner in open play; caveat is he can't pass to save his life. This would be unacceptable in the NRL and he'd either have to improve or wave goodbye to any sort of career. Young players need to learn to improve everything about their game, we need these more rounded individuals that are working hard for each other and it all comes into place.
Overall I'm not sure we can improve enough to compete with the NRL, at least not under our current structure now. League simply isn't big enough to get enough quality players, and until it is I can't see our matches against the NRL improving.
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| I agree with a lot of what people have put forward here and elsewhere, especially about youth coaching, having recently got involved myself (u9s going into 10s, I saw far too much give it to the big/fast/strong lad and came up against stiff opposition from players and parents when I promoted passing more than just from dummy half. I also think on this front the small pitches younger age groups play on with big-ish teams inhibits this style of play.
In terms of higher up I see a lot of people hate dual reg, yet down under there was talk of them scrapping U20s for getting young lads playing NSW/QLD cup, and forgive me if I'm wrong but don't all NRL teams have a dual-reg style agreement with a QLD/NSW cup team?
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1 Warrington 2 Hull 3 Wigan 4 Castleford 4 Castleford 5 St Helens 6 Leeds 7 Catalans 8 Hudedersfield 9 Widnes 10 Wakefield
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Playoffs:Warrington Hull Wigan Castleford
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| You see the problem epitomised every half time at the Rhino's games when the kids come on to play. It's either give it to the biggest lad (or lass) or let the fastest player scoot round the edge while all the other players hang around in bunches twiddling their thumbs.
It's so depressing.
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| Now that Rugby League is a fully professional sport, I believe the Aussies have pulled away in all facets of the game based on a number of advantages they already have on us.
The fact it is such a high profile sport over there, and the money now available to both the NRL and it's clubs means they've been able to really build on their infrastructures from junior levels all the way through - we're not competing on a level playing field.
There are some advantages that they have that we cannot replicate and therefore need to think of smarter ways to overcome these challenges and some general changes to how we approach the game;
Their Climate - The weather in Aus allows their kids to play and learn the game in ideal conditions, pretty much all year round. The years spent learning the basics are done so in good conditions - over here, our kids are playing and training in the cold, wet and dark, which has a negative impact on participation levels (its much more comfortable sit in the house on an Xbox than go out in the cold and wet). It also limits the number of hours our kids can actually spend outdoors playing sport - in Aus, the climate means that the kids can constantly be outdoors playing - the more time spent as a kid with the ball in their hands, the better they'll become, the more they'll enjoy the game... its a positive snowball affect in Aus and a negative one over here. So, as a sport (and actually as a country) we need to be able to provide facilities that enable kids to play the game, all year round in good conditions... The ideal for me would be the provision of indoor, or roofed 3G sports facilities that can be used all year round - give the kids dry, comfortable conditions to hone their skills. The problem is, providing enough of these facilities across the country will cost a fortune - which is why I don't think it's something the RFL can do alone - they need the Government, Sport England and their clubs to all be pitching in.
The Junior Game and Coaching - Lots of people have mentioned the fact that junior coaches are focussed too much on their teams winning their games, rather than improving the kids skill sets - so we then get the 'give it to the big kid' syndrome. Whilst winning is always important in sport and the kids should be encouraged to have a winning attitude (I hate the idea of kids playing sport and there being no 'winner'), the coaches should be spending all of their time with the kids on improving techniques. Far too often we see junior matches where it's 5 different kids simply driving the ball in, followed by giving it to their big lad on the last tackle of every set to bust through and score. I'd like to see Touch and Pass or TAG rugby given a bigger focus - let the kids learn how to pass, catch, run good lines etc without the fear of being munched by the by kid - there's still a need for full blown tackle, but I think we start this far too young at the moment, and it almost feels like TAG is then seen as a 'soft' version of the game. With the right marketing followed by then the right coaching and competitions, TAG could be a breading ground for our future stars - many of the top half backs in Aus/NZ excelled in the TAG environment.
Academies and Scholarships Again this is a topic that is often discussed, but we need to get the pathways for our elite juniors right and be looking to take on the right Juniors into these elite programmes, not just the biggest and fastest. We need a standard format across the whole country at every age level for 'representative rugby' with training camps and then tournaments and competitions, with professional coaching (independent from SL clubs) available at all stages - again with the focus of the coaching on improving the individuals skill sets, not on winning regional tournaments. The winning of tournaments should be a by product, not the sole focus of the camps. Kids should then only be signing with professional clubs from 16 onwards - the Acadamies for the past 20 years have been littered with kids who were giants or athletes at 14 when they were signed, who then havent progressed any further physically and have been caught up by the other kids, so their natural advantage has then disappeared.
There's a million and 1 other things that could be changed for the better, but I think the three fundementals above would go a long way to bridging the gap. Ultimately, we need more kids playing the game, in better facilities, with better coaching. Of course having more money at the top level will help attract more kids to the idea of making a living from RL, but there are fundemental issues that need dealing with long before the salary cap. Our very best athletes can live with the Aussies, paying them more now is short sighted and wont change a thing - we need more strength in depth.
More juniors learning, playing and sticking with the game = more elite athletes moving on to the professional game.
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//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: krisleeds "For me
Unfortunately these would address none of the problems that lead us to this point.
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: Superted "The Junior Game and Coaching - Lots of people have mentioned the fact that junior coaches are focussed too much on their teams winning their games, rather than improving the kids skill sets - so we then get the 'give it to the big kid' syndrome. Whilst winning is always important in sport and the kids should be encouraged to have a winning attitude (I hate the idea of kids playing sport and there being no 'winner'), the coaches should be spending all of their time with the kids on improving techniques. Far too often we see junior matches where it's 5 different kids simply driving the ball in, followed by giving it to their big lad on the last tackle of every set to bust through and score. I'd like to see Touch and Pass or TAG rugby given a bigger focus - let the kids learn how to pass, catch, run good lines etc without the fear of being munched by the by kid - there's still a need for full blown tackle, but I think we start this far too young at the moment, and it almost feels like TAG is then seen as a 'soft' version of the game. With the right marketing followed by then the right coaching and competitions, TAG could be a breading ground for our future stars - many of the top half backs in Aus/NZ excelled in the TAG environment.'"
Lot of good ideas have been said on here about how to better the game at the younger ages which I agree with. The big is stumbling block still though is the 'parents' issue. Just the other week a guy at work was telling me about his son's football team. They're only 8 years old and the coach quite decently shares out the MOM around the team each week. But of course they ended up getting one parent kicking off saying his son should've won it and saying he should get it most weeks. Cue a big argument between two parents right next to the kids, shouting and the parent who thinks his son should be MOM all the time pretty much saying within earshot how poor some of the other kids are.
How do you solve the parent issue? Until you do then all the good ideas on how to learn them better at a young age can't be properly executed.
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fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif :fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif |
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| Coaching at all levels needs to be better. The current list of British SL coaches is starting to look very 'early 80s' - Fox, Murphy, Bamford in England vs Gibson, Stanton, Fulton in Oz. Just replace with Wane, Radford, Cunningham vs Robinson, Maguire, Hasler.
SL clubs should seek out the best young Aussie coaches. It would be a revolving door as they'd seek NRL jobs but you'd make sure we're up to date. In fact given the success of Brown, Maguire and Robinson (even Kevin Walters) being able to get NRL head coaching roles after stints in SL, SL could easily become to be seen as a good way of getting an NRL gig.
For all the rubbish thrown at McNamara at least he's learning his trade in the NRL. As far as I'm aware not one of the English coaches in SL has done similar, and yet that is clearly the place to learn.
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//www.pngnrlbid.com
[quote="bUsTiNyAbALLs":9q9d2t35]Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.[/quote:9q9d2t35]
[quote="vastman":9q9d2t35]My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.[/quote:9q9d2t35]: |
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| Quote: BrisbaneRhino "Coaching at all levels needs to be better. The current list of British SL coaches is starting to look very 'early 80s' - Fox, Murphy, Bamford in England vs Gibson, Stanton, Fulton in Oz. Just replace with Wane, Radford, Cunningham vs Robinson, Maguire, Hasler.
SL clubs should seek out the best young Aussie coaches. It would be a revolving door as they'd seek NRL jobs but you'd make sure we're up to date. In fact given the success of Brown, Maguire and Robinson (even Kevin Walters) being able to get NRL head coaching roles after stints in SL, SL could easily become to be seen as a good way of getting an NRL gig.
For all the rubbish thrown at McNamara at least he's learning his trade in the NRL. As far as I'm aware not one of the English coaches in SL has done similar, and yet that is clearly the place to learn.'"
thats true. If Burrow or JJB or Sinfield or whoever has their eye on the top job in Leeds, we should be using one of our many 'relationships' with NRL clubs and have them spend a couple of years as an assistant in the NRL.
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7447_1318587549.jpg "Not once has anyone whinged, moaned, blamed refs or looked for answers other than what's inside. That's why this is special." - Brian McDermott 08th Oct 2011:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_7447.jpg |
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| Less games. JP has called it for years, you can't expect our top players to play 35-40 games a season and be as good as Aussie players who average 25 games. Our season is ridiculously long, exacerbated by meaningless friendlies
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: AJC "Less games. JP has called it for years, you can't expect our top players to play 35-40 games a season and be as good as Aussie players who average 25 games. Our season is ridiculously long, exacerbated by meaningless friendlies'"
Less home games equals less money equals making it harder to pay our best players enough money to stay here.
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27287_1532947987.png BELIEVE. BELIEF. BEYOND.
IT AIN'T WHERE YOUR FROM, ITS WHERE YOUR AT.
SWMC Coach's very own timekeeping aficionado & expert stair inspector.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_27287.png |
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| Unfortunately you can't lop off 15+ games over here without impacting money. Most clubs are so reliant on the central funding almost any reduction in funding would send them under.
Quality over quantity is needed.
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