After being comprehensively beaten on Saturday, is it time for GH/BM to take a good look at the squad and have a clear out?

Obviously we have our stalwarts (KS,RB,JP,DMc), some players approaching their peak, some great young future internationals and then there is a few that just are not up to it after having more than a fair chance to shine.

Ryan Bailey - Has to be the worst player in SL for silly penalties. Big guy, but doesn't use his size or strength to great advantage and cares to bully the little guys, only for his ar*e to fall out when the big guns arrive.

Weller Hauraki - Sorry, not enough time to list his weaknesses, GOT TO GO!!

Chris Clarkson - Still young with plenty of potential but are their signs of him ever showing his best on a consistent basis? Has been in and out the team but just cant hold down a regular place.

Darrell Griffin - Again a big and strong powerful lad but is he really making the difference we need when he comes off the bench?

Richard Moore - Yet again a huge human being, hasn't had many chances, but hasn't played that badly when he has. But surely we would get more out of having Kyle Amor back?

Ian Kirke - Again has been in and out of the team for a number of seasons now. Never really stood out on a regular basis and cant seem to maintain any consistent form.

I'm not for one minute saying we can just go and make wholesale changes to the squad within a matter of months, but surely these are some of the players GH/BM need to be looking at to move on at some stage and trying to improve the squad.

Anyone tend to agree?

yeah but like you say a top quality pack is hard to replace instantly and not always available.

I think it would take some transfer fees and an element of risk to assemble one, I dont know who you would keep peacock n sinfield? or who else knocking on the door from the academy ?

It has been a while since a leeds pack has dominated a top 4 side which i feel they need to do in order to get their backs into the game as i think that they dont have the ability to break from inside their own 20 and score on a regular basis

Jesus Christ - we lose one game, albeit a very important game. but still only one game and this board gets infected with posters who believe we should clear out half of a Championship winning team.

We need one or two class forwards and that's about it!

No so long ago I questioned a statement that G1 made about some fans not deserving to support this current Leeds team - with threads like this I'm starting to think he's right.

The back 3 in the pack are an issue for me, it's nots the worst in the world But they for me are all similar workman like, could do with some line breaking ability back there.

As for Saturday JP was the best forward for leeds

Im yet to see Ryan baileys fall out in a big game, hes been a very good performer this year, even though the side has been inconsistant. JJb to me is a big offender when it comes to giving away silly penalties.

Look at the tactics for saturday, to me it looked like we prepared for a wet weather arm wrestle we got that for about 10 minutes, having jimmy on the bench was a waste of an interchange, ward is a back rower imo, we got the ball to watkins three times, once he got on the outside and got tackled into touch, and the two other times he scored two tries.

I agree the likes of weller, moore, kirke, clarky etc could be replaced but tbh theyre squad players who dont always play every week, and moore and kirke have been doing a decent job this year.

Id give Griffin a starting role next season and bring back amor and rotate jp and kylie accordingly ( JP was our best on sat imo). Also bring in a new centre or give jimmy the off season and give him the left centre.

Regarding kirke, he is probably performing better now than I have seen him play in a while, and he isn't first choice but squad player

This. I'd never thought I'd hear myself say this, but I would more than likely keep him at HQ, unless we signed someone better and he became a waste of cap space.

Agree with the comment re Ward. Would rather see him play 13.

We brought in Griffin and Moore to strengthen our prop forward department & you are now suggesting releasing them, and 2 more props - unbelievable.

Kirke has been good this year and deserves his spot in the side on merit - he's a squad player but a useful one to have around who makes few errors and seems to have a good work ethic and be a good guy in the dressing room.

Bailey has been one of better forwards in the last 3 years despite having a pretty average time in Challenge Cup Finals.

Moore I never really understood. I guess he has helped with rotation but I'd have been happy to see SIngleton get his minutes.

Griffin has disappointed me after a good start despite some glimpses of excellence but is a steady prop.

If we release these 4 and then Peacock and Leuluai retire in 12 & 24 months we'd be looking awful in that department. Experienced prop forwards don't grow on trees and add a high quality one to that lot such as Burgess,Graham or Peacock in his prime and they'd look a good bunch.

One quality signing rather than wholesale changes for me

With Achurch coming in id also recall Amor AND Mcshane.
If we can't sign another forward i'd hope to see Singleton get more mninutes and a new deal for Daniel Smith with the latter hopefully at least getting a dual reg with a short notice recall for certain games.
I've loved watching Kylie and he like others who have played a huge part in making history deserve a HOF place but for me he should be released.
Now we all JP is a Legend pure and simple but if he's to stay then surely he should rotated on a more regular basis and not flogged for 60mins week in week out.
Some big calls need making imo and a simple 1/2 in 1/2 out wont be good enough to get a top 3 spot we should either give the 4 shirt to Keinhorst and back him or sign someone else with quality and get Abbo back in the BR asap because i think we need competition for paces there and there's been too much work-load on Jjb and Delaney.
Bailey is a prop and should be put there and kept there we did well with him at 13 at times but overall i think he should be at Prop.
I think Griffin should stay and although Moore has done well if Mc thinks Kirke is better then he'd be beter off leaving and use one of te youngsters for rotation i.e Singleton.
Is it an over-reaction to a one off final defeat?
Absolutely not imo its been coming for 2 years/18months they've done great to win another GF and a WCC and make 2 CC finals but does that mean we should keep them all when they are clearly inconsistent and towards the end of their careers its a no for me.
Players like Barrie Mc ,Senior ,Webb ,Ali were all released or refused longer deals they were seeking so i think that policy needs to continue id rather have a year with a younger re-built squad learning than see some real Club legends and players who have done good things fior us struggle for a year.

How about losing some of the off-field deadwood ?

They say a good coach turns an average player in to a decent player and a decent player in to a great one.

Just look at what we were up against on Saturday, which could be argued on paper was an equally 'Dads Army' side.

Morley - Given a new lease of life under Smith, when the rest of us thought he was off to Wire to a few fat cheques to top off his pension after a career down under

Briers - Back in the old days, you could smack him early and he'd go missing for the rest of the game. In the same way that Graham Murray rehabilitated Barrie Mac's career, everyone thought that Briers would be one of the first out under TS, but after getting him to knuckle down, it again could be argued that LB is playing the best football of his career

Carvell - Rejected by Leeds & Hull, yet better than most of our pack on Saturday

Hodgson - Another one who was thought to be off to Wire for a pension top-up and who's career would fizzle out. Man Of The Match and rolled back the years ... Compare that to the handling of our penalty machine Brent Webb and isn't he actually younger than Hodgson ?

Add to that some smart recruitment like the Monaghans, the development of Ben Harrison, Ratchford and Myler.

Can of us say this season that any of our players have looked better now under our current coaches that they did under any of the previous coaching teams ?

He wasn't Leeds class in the first place ... I suspect signed to bung some cash to Crusaders to keep them afloat.

Smith is a clever opportunist - he knew Warrington had the money to create a very good side, just like he did at Huddersfield and Leeds. Smith is a great coach but it helps if you can sign the likes of Atkins, Myler, Morley, Monaghan, Hodgson and Ratchford on a regular basis. Compare Warrington's recruitment with that of Leeds over the past 3 years?

i don't rate BM but i don't think recruitment, or lack of it, has helped him

Admiral Hanson is spot on. Warrington are an older side than Leeds and in the long term context have the same issues in terms of having to replace players. It is going to be a problem. Saints went through it a couple of years ago and have dropped their level.

The differences between Leeds and Warrington are that some of Leeds' older players are past their best, whilst Warrington's Dads Army brigade are still top performers even if they are past their absolute peak, and also in terms of the age profile Leeds have a bigger gap between senior players and a lot of young lads (of mixed quality), Warrington have been bringing in early to mid twenties guys that have proved themselves in SL, like Myler, Atkins, Ratchford etc, so there is less of a gap in age and experience.

Now I know some Leeds fans may be automatically defensive because I'm a Warrington fan and say well why are we the champions then, but that was due to one fine performance last year that knocked us out of the playoffs, overall you can't deny that for three years we have been a better team so I'm not trying to score points by bashing Leeds.

Leeds have something that we don't which is a long proven youth academy and so external recruitment of young players from other clubs is probably less of a priority for GH than it is for us, although in recent years our youth set up has got better. We have been able to bring a handful of decent players like Riley, Harrison, Cooper, Evans, McCarthy into the first team but we haven't had the numbers historically of Leeds or Wigan or Saints.

In terms of recruitment of overseas players though it's been a while since Leeds have made really good signings of overseas players, back in the mid 2000s you were bringing in Lauititi, Donald, Furner real top class, but in recent years Leeds have signed a lot of average players where we've done well with overseas players, the Monaghans, Hodgson, Waterhouse have been class and before them King and Hicks too.

I still don't think Leeds are far off but you need a bit more up front in the pack. Bailey should have been released a while ago. I wonder why Leeds weren't in for Carvell when we signed him at a time we were crap and Jimmy Lowes was coach, but ever since we signed him our pack has been dominant and we've been winning trophies. Also Leeds never replaced Ellis, someone like Waterhouse would have been a great Leeds signing.