FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > webb got mom |
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64116_1318364266.jpg “We are but visitors on this planet. We are here for ninety or one hundred years at the very most. During that period, we must try to do something good, something useful with our lives. If you contibute to other people's happiness, you will find the true goal, the true meaning of life.”
― Dalai Lama XIV:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_64116.jpg |
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| What a miserable set of so called supporters we have - Ian Kirke has got how many Grand Final Winners rings ?
He won't be a high earner and is no where near as bad as made out on here.
The coaches make the decisions to play him (the same coaches who have won four out of five Grand Finals). Go figure.
Get off his back
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64823_1319661026.jpg Believe:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_64823.jpg |
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| Quote: ernest shackleton "What a miserable set of so called supporters we have - Ian Kirke has got how many Grand Final Winners rings ?
He won't be a high earner and is no where near as bad as made out on here.
The coaches make the decisions to play him (the same coaches who have won four out of five Grand Finals). Go figure.
Get off his back
Good first post this. I'm really getting pretty bored with the Kirke-kicking tendency that seems to pervade every thread on this board. Kirke does a job. It may not be spectacular but it's clearly the job that he's been asked to do and he's clearly done it to the satisfaction of at least three championship-winning coaches.
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982.jpg [quote:1pqtnbtj]Every player in our squad could probably earn more money with another club. But they prefer to sacrifice a few extra quid in their back pocket to share special memories. And playing at a place like Old Trafford on a night like this makes it all worthwhile.[/quote:1pqtnbtj]
Kevin Sinfield:982.jpg |
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| I've done jobbies that lasted longer than Kirke.
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| Kirkes performances get the same scrutiny the rest of the squad get.
Read through ANY match/squad threads and IF he's not performed as fans would expect from a 6"+ 17st+ Prop then it gets commented on just as Burrow etc did last year when they were "off form" or not producing.
Whether others get bored or not offer something to the debate that gives a positive spin on his efforts indeed he did ok v Widnes and it was mentioned.
With the size of the squad and the emergance of some potential within the acadamy players will ALWAYS be disussed whether + or - you just have to look back to Seniors last active 18mths.
It's not "bashing ,kicking or witch hunting" just debate and opinions on players within the team/squad we follow.
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17481_1370516045.jpg You are not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on!:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17481.jpg |
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| Webb is so Hit and miss. Brilliant but so deadly when you need him to be brilliant.
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| Quote: ernest shackleton "What a miserable set of so called supporters we have - Ian Kirke has got how many Grand Final Winners rings ?
He won't be a high earner and is no where near as bad as made out on here.
The coaches make the decisions to play him (the same coaches who have won four out of five Grand Finals). Go figure.
Get off his back
He certainly makes it into the first 17 above the afore mentioned....or would you disagree ?
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Club Coach | 15864 | No Team Selected |
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10145_1279728778.png :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10145.png |
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| Quote: nantwichexile "Quote: nantwichexile "I actually do think it'd a bit of a witchhunt. gareth raised some valid points about his performance levels last season and I think we debated it at length several times.
this season loads have jumped on the bandwagon to have a go at the easy target but without any actual insight or analysis of why he may be being selected. he's played a couple of gameswhen others have been missing but has probably attracted more mentions on this board than most of the team. No wonder we get called whinos.
he's a cheap option who does a job. why don't proper get that. if he was a better player he wouldn't fit into the squad.'"
Some people seem more blinkered than others......some are more capable of forming an opinion on what they see for themselves rather than accepting the mantra and dogma of others.
Others can speak for themselves but I cannot see what the guy offers above the likes of Singleton, Moore, Amor, Ambler etc etc. Can you ??
I can see what he offers above Moore but only because they are different types of players. I'm not sure why the likes of Amber and Amor are not given the chance on the face of it Amor certainly seems to be the more logical choice. The only thing I can think is that he's an experienced safe body though that's a very short term view. however I'm happy to trust the experts who have delivered this period of unprecedented success.
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| Eagle-Whether Kirke is a "cheap option" or not when selected for the 1st 17 he should and will be judged as such.
Now having seen most of pre-season ,plenty of the acadamy games and knowing full well how kirke performed last season i stand by my post and opinion that the other "options" would be better choices.
Indeed at this moment in time i'm pretty sure Kirke earns more than Ambler ,Singleton and possibly Amor and Moore so we'd obviously get "bang for our buck" should they get the opportunity and take it.
No-one is expecting him match JP or Bailey for e.g just play Prop with some grunt and play his weight at this moment in time imo there are many better options within the squad and i see Kirke as someone "holding up" a youngsters progress OR preventing Moore playing who would add more impact and can do more minutes.
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23603_1336678755.jpg "Look, I'd never use injuries as an excuse..." Daryl Powell:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_23603.jpg |
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| Re the infrequency of Kirke's carries, there are only so many to be shared between the forwards in any given game. I'm happy to see that workload left largely to others who are more effective at it. Presumably the coach has the same view, otherwise he's have ordered Kirke to take the ball in more often. My guess is that Kirke's role is to plug gaps during lulls in the team's attcking momentum. Which, by and large, he's ok at doing. He'll never top the tackle count but equally there aren't many tries that stem from lax defending on his part.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 27 | No Team Selected |
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Oct 2011 | 13 years | |
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64116_1318364266.jpg “We are but visitors on this planet. We are here for ninety or one hundred years at the very most. During that period, we must try to do something good, something useful with our lives. If you contibute to other people's happiness, you will find the true goal, the true meaning of life.”
― Dalai Lama XIV:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_64116.jpg |
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| Quote: nantwichexile "So what do [iyou[/i consider he offers that puts him in your first 17 pecking order ?
Is it his competitiveness, controlled aggression, tackle busting ability, rugby intellect, punishing tackling, or high industrious workmanlike performances that impresses you most ?'"
I never said that he should be in the 17. We as supporters are not privy to the inner workings of the club. I would tend to trust the coaches and management to select and manage the squad in the best interests of the club. They don't need to rush the likes of Amor, Singleton etc and will choose the best time to bring them on mainstream. I'm certainly not against open discussion and player criticism but anyone new to SS would IMO probably feel that there are a good number of posters who do have a witchhunt against him.
Quote: nantwichexile "I've done jobbies that lasted longer than Kirke.
'"
G1 - 7 years and counting is a hell of a long time to be sat on the pot - respect
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10145_1279728778.png :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10145.png |
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| Quote: rhinoms "Eagle-Whether Kirke is a "cheap option" or not when selected for the 1st 17 he should and will be judged as such.
Now having seen most of pre-season ,plenty of the acadamy games and knowing full well how kirke performed last season i stand by my post and opinion that the other "options" would be better choices.
Indeed at this moment in time i'm pretty sure Kirke earns more than Ambler ,Singleton and possibly Amor and Moore so we'd obviously get "bang for our buck" should they get the opportunity and take it.
No-one is expecting him match JP or Bailey for e.g just play Prop with some grunt and play his weight at this moment in time imo there are many better options within the squad and i see Kirke as someone "holding up" a youngsters progress OR preventing Moore playing who would add more impact and can do more minutes.'"
I think you're right in that he will probably be earning more than those mentioned. I don't inlcude Moore in comparisons. Some people seem to be wowwed by a couple of barnstorming runs and a couple of offloads. He is very much a go forward impact prop, but there are reasons why he's a journeyman, and his ranking at Leeds reflects that. The way I see it Kirke & Moore are joint 5th Prop for Leeds. Kirke if you want someone steady to fill a hole. Moore if you want to add some go forward.
Last year Kirke was regularly in the 17 as we had decided that Cross was a liability so got shut, and that Burgess was not committed to the team. This year those players have been replaced, and so he's correctly back as a squad member.
In terms of developing props, I don't think its as simple as some people seem to think. Certainly Leeds seem to take a very cautious approach. Burgess had to wait a long time to get his chance, as did Scruton before him. Amor & Ambler are on a similar path. I'm not sure Kirke is standing in their way, just keeping the seat warm for them. Certainly for Amor, he's doing better careerwise than if Kirke wasn't at Leeds, because I doubt he would be allowed out on loan if he was 5th in line.
I can see why people get frustrated by his poor shwoing with the ball. I wish he'd do more, but I think we as supporters, and even amateur players have a very one dimensional view on the positions and their roles. I would trust McDermott to know what he wants to get out of a prop more than anyone on here.
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39092.jpg Ryan Bailey (11/11/83) - The Most Feared Man In Super League
The Most Feared Man In Super League (TMFMISL) * Coined by thebloodbath * Inspired by Bailey *:39092.jpg |
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| Quote: The Eagle "Burgess had to wait a long time to get his chance, as did Scruton before him.'"
Remember though Scruton 'cut his teeth' in the first team in the same season as TMFMISL. Look how both have developed or not.
Still think Scruton showed his best form of his career on loan at Hull. He seemed to rip up some trees there.
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