Points well made - the cornerstones of our pack are two 36 year olds. We need to off load at least of our other props & bring in some more muscle/enthusiasm.
As I've said on other threads we have to find some pace at half back because Friday night pairing are pedestrian !

There is no need to bring Ryan Bailey into the debate .

There's every need. As average has Bailey has been recently he'd offer far more than Kirke the Shirke jogging half dly around the pitch like he's carrying two rolls of carpets under his arms.

Built like Tarzan, plays like Jane's wet tampon, Kirke that is.

Having watched the game this morning I think the first try is definitely dumb play by kirke. If you are first man of the tackle you should make a big effort to get in to defend in the A position. However, they're should have been someone else in there already. Having lost that ruck I would have expected more urgency getting back, and awareness what was going on over his shoulder, but the blame die that try was not all his fault though it makes him look stupid.

The second try was more the man outside kirke defending too wide, though still a pretty poor attempt to tackle.

In defense of him being lazy, the set after the first try Kirke made all the tackles before a kick on the 4th. He's not lazy but his defence is certainly causing some concerns, which if that is what he's there for is not good

You disregard cas away? That's a bloody tough place to win especially this year. A great win

Bailey average! If Bailey had hit the giddy heights of average for the last two years it would have been a massive improvement to what he has actually served up. He has stolen a shirt for the last two years yet you think that he is suddenly going to change. Look up the definition of madness as picking Bailey would apply. He never runs at pace straight at the opposition line but does a stupid little shuffle before he gets slammed on his backside 10 yards behing where he started off. His performance against Wigan was a gutless embarrassment as he ended up as Bateman's bitch. BJB would offer more at prop than Bailey is currently giving.

Time to tell Bailey to take himself and his baggage to any club that are daft enough to show an interest and let them pick up the tab for this joke of a prop.

And that's the few occasions when he actually takes a hit up. When you think leeds often have him on the bench along with kirke you realise they actually play alot of games effectively 2 men down in comparison to the opposition and quickly you start to realise how much extra workload peacock and leuluai have, both 36.

I've suggested in other threads that we should off load both Kirke & Bailey (to be told that we can't dismantle the team in one go) ! A lot of people seem to agree that BOTH should be moved on - if neither are good enough/contribute.
Surely we are better making room for either new signings &/or promoting youngsters ? It may take time to re-establish a top team but is that not better than putting up with what we have now ?

What's quite bad is that even though he didn't play on Friday (in what was a pretty team wide shoddy showing), Bailey has received more criticism in the last 48 hours on here following Leeds' poorest showing of the year than most of the team....only Kirke and McGuire have surpassed him in that regard.

When Bailey is being quoted as a better replacement than what took the field on Friday then you call it as you see it. The introduction of Bailey would not improve the pack and if that is the case then why the hell do we persist in giving him game time and a new contract. I'd have Mulhern in the 19 for the rest of the season and off load Bailey and Kirke at the end of the season and recruit two new props that will share the workload with JP, Kylie and Cuthbertson. If Yates is anything like then that will be a bonus.

Bailey and kirke do not offer that much but they are a known quantity. Our pack is based on peacock doing loads of work and the other props filling the gaps. When peacock can't do the level of work we need to start making changes, the process has started with Singleton getting regular game time and the cuthburtson signing. Interesting to see what happens in the coming months

Also worth bearing in mind that a number of players will be more concerned with the Challenge Cup at this stage. May explain some comments re McGuire for example?

Woe is me,I am in the wilds of Southern Europe have just got an internet connection wish I had not bothered.
I have recorded the game, will watch it on my return this Thursday .
Reading the postings looks like we were dreadful ,hope it's just a one off and not the sign of things to come.

Wouldn't you run at him too?

Memo for Kirke: 'Turn and face'

We were terrible on friday, I honestly cant remember when we last played as bad

Kirke for me offers nothing at all, yes he makes some tackles but isn't that the absolute minimum requirement from a pro super league player?

As bad as we were lets not over react, I still think we have as good chance as any other team to be successful in both competitions this year

I'm really concerned about the flat unstructured rugby that is creeping into our game again.

Is this team, pack in particularly, solely reliant upon effort over structure? Will we just get burnt out year after year?

Its one loss. No big worry, but the horrible no structure, one out along the line basic play was still there. That should be abolished. McD should be ripping into them. If that doesn't go then we will win sod all and will be burnt out from too much effort over structure, just as last season.

Last please Kev & McGuire, kick at first receiver and stop f'in about chancing the arm. You've been sussed out. Its what has won you all those rings, dont abandon it now.

Your memory doesn't stretch back that far then does it? Some of the humpings we've had in regular season games against the likes of Hudds, Saints and Wigan in the last few years have been far, far worse than Friday.

We had an off day. We got beaten. It's been exception rather than rule this year, so let's not panic.

The point is though. In all three defeats this year, the defensive tactics of the opposition have being exactly the same.

All three teams, have still made their mistakes, all three have still made missed tackles also, yet in all three games we have struggled to get an attacking game together.

I would say that is more the worry. Can we overcome those defensive tactics in our game plan?

Like I said in my post lets not panic just yet but I did think we were exceptionally bad on friday

Attack (or lack of it) was the main worry, We haven't scored less points in a game for 15 years I think the sky team mentioned and for mine the kylie try was more down to luck than anything else. Warrington defended well in credit to them but nothing that I would expect to keep us out with such ease.

Defence was also a shambles and wire should have put 50 on us imo

We should beat Leigh comfortably but I cant see past a Hudds win next thursday as things stand.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

It was bad Friday, but even in a mis-tackle frenzie we somehow managed to sidestep being blown-out of the water on scoreboard.

that's probably the only pleasing aspect, apart from Abletts contribution.

just mark it down as one of them games unless it continues.
Quiet a few players getting stick but our maquee signing seems exempt, personally not seen anything from Tom to make him any better then BJB and much slower to boot. TB timing is well out over running the ball carrier on many occasions, yet to see him make a telling break from a field kick he to drops the ball something Ben was pulled over the coals for and for me Toms defence not that much better. Hey oh though what do I no

Thought we have looked poor for the last few games tbh.
Not sure if it is a blip or that we have an eye on the CC as Brisbane has said or that other teams have found us out.
We certainly are lacking pace at HB and both Mcguire and Sinfield are falling off tackles at ease.
We have a number of forwards who are not playing with any bite or venom and that might be down to knowing they wont be with us next year or simply down to not being good enough.
The youngsters such as Mulhern, Minchella, and England must be wandering what they have to do to get into a side that plays like we have the past few weeks.
For me Clarkson, Kirke, Bailey and possibly JJB need to improve quickly or be shipped out.
I would also add Sinfield to that list as just being a captain wont bring it`s rewards every year.
McGuire whilst his brain tells him what he should be doing. His legs and more importantly his heart is telling him something else.
Either give Sutcliffe an opprtunity long term or buy in someone who can run the show.

As fans of a club famed for 'peaking at the right time' I'm amazed that so many of us are seriously worried by a mid-season form slump. Look around you. Saints slumped a few weeks ago and are now recovering, Wigan also lost last week after looking unstoppable, and Warrington and Huddersfield are only now getting into their strides.

There have been far worse performances than Friday's in recent memory - how about Catalans away in 2011 (just before our season turned around)...

As for individuals, Hardaker has been roundly praised along with Ablett (who we may lose for a few games I fear for his boot connecting with Joel Monaghan's head).

Peacock and Leuluai grafted but weren't as effective as usual in the forwards. Kirke, Clarkson, Singleton and S. Ward needed to step up but didn't (then again, not sure I've seen Clarkson have a noticeably good game since Brian McClennan was in charge, at least the others are capable of it). I didn't realise Achurch was injured - he did seem to have a dig early on. Delaney - and dare I say it, JJB & Bailey, were missed for their defensive work rate.

R. Ward looked okay but looked like struggling to match it physically with the Wire pack. I felt we badly needed a proper hooker - both for a bit more zip in the middle of the field, but also someone to improve our defence in the middle and around the ruck. With Sinfield there our kicking game completely went to pot.

As for the other backs, Hall put his hand up but was in heavy traffic most of the time. Watkins was starved of ball. Briscoe looks a bit of a stranger at the moment - not sure if this is because he's lacked consistent game time or is simply going through a bit of a drop in confidence. Moon was pretty erratic.

Sutcliffe looked like one of the few dangerous Leeds players later on, although his defence wasn't great. I was surprised by how uninvolved McGuire seemed - the first truly off-game I have seen from him this season.

I didn't see the game on Friday so cannot comment on individual performances in the wire game but threads like this have been commonplace in recent years.
No player can go on forever but writing them off has proved foolish in the past and several people could have egg on their face again.
All teams have peaks and troughs in the season but the ones that peak when it matters are the top sides. We have proved time and again we are capable of doing that.

Except for the most recent time, last season, which in reality is what we should be judging on now, as to go back to 2012 would be two years.