FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > For the Kirke haters |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "A Kirke thread?
It's been a while.'"
Kirke must be well miffed that Vickery is no longer here
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| Stats can be used to show anything. As the forward who has played most games he's likely to fair pretty well in cumulative stats
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| Clutching.at.straws
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| Quote: Separate Ways "Ian Kirke's position in our stats for this year, along with the people better/worse than him.
Tackles
BURP.
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| Quote: Separate Ways "Tackle Accuracy
I'm not inclined to scrutinise these too closely but dude Moon, Kirke, Ablett are nowhere near close to being Leeds most 'accurate' tacklers of those that have made over 400 in 2013. They sit 10th 11th and 12th respectively of the twelve players I have on that list.
Quote: Separate Ways "I don't claim these are the stats of a star prop. But as the stats of a 20-minute give-JP-a-breather prop, they are at least comparable to others in the squad.
The best stats we could have would be all the absolute ones used in this post, adjusted for minutes on the pitch. Tvoc?'"
I don't have access to minutes played - I've tried but found it extremely time consuming even for the televised games let alone any of the others.
What we do have now though is those stats reported by Opta over a full Regular Round season and here are the key ones (IMO), just for the players generally regarded for the prop positions.
2013 Appearances (SL Regular Rounds Only, from a possible 27)
1 - Kirke – 26 (Inc 23 Subs)
2 - Peacock – 23 (Inc 1 Sub)
3 - Leuluai – 19 (Inc 2 Subs)
4 - Moore - 16 (Inc 13 Subs)
5 – Singleton - 14 (Inc 5 Subs)
6 - Bailey - 11 (Inc 1 Sub)
The following are all expressed as an average per appearance
Metres:
1 - Peacock - 156.17
2 - Leuluai - 85.84
3 - Singleton - 66.43
4 - Kirke - 50.65
5 - Bailey - 50.00
6 - Moore - 49.38
Carries:
1 - Peacock - 23.57
2 - Leuluai - 12.00
3 - Singleton - 9.86
4 - Bailey - 9.00
5 - Moore - 6.94
6 - Kirke - 6.92
Metres Per Carry:
1 - Kirke - 7.32
2 - Leuluai - 7.15
3 - Moore – 7.12
4 – Singleton – 6.74
5 - Peacock - 6.63
6 - Bailey – 5.56
Tackle Busts:
1 - Peacock – 1.87
2 - Bailey – 1.18
3 - Singleton – 1.00
4 - Leuluai – 0.74
5 - Moore – 0.56
6 - Kirke – 0.54
Clean Breaks:
1 - Peacock – 0.13
2 - Singleton – 0.07
3 - Kirke – 0.04
Tackles:
1 - Peacock – 32.57
2 - Bailey – 24.45
3 - Singleton – 22.21
4 - Kirke – 20.23
5 - Leuluai – 19.00
6 - Moore – 13.88
Missed Tackles:
1 - Peacock – 1.83
2 - Kirke – 1.65
3 - Singleton – 1.50
4 - Bailey – 1.45
5 - Leuluai – 1.16
6 - Moore – 0.94
Tackle Success:
1 - Peacock – 94.69%
2 - Bailey – 94.39%
3 - Leuluai – 94.26%
4 - Singleton – 93.675%
5 - Moore – 93.671%
6 - Kirke – 92.44%
Penalties Conceded:
1 - Peacock – 0.957
2 - Bailey – 0.636
3 - Leuluai – 0.632
4 - Moore – 0.625
5 - Singleton – 0.571
6 - Kirke – 0.231
Errors:
1 - Bailey – 0.55
2 - Peacock – 0.52
3 - Leuluai – 0.47
4 - Moore – 0.44
5 - Singleton – 0.43
6 - Kirke – 0.38
(All are only in the view of Opta so how much store you invest in them is a matter of personal opinion.)
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| Quote: The Eagle "Stats can be used to show anything. As the forward who has played most games he's likely to fair pretty well in cumulative stats'"
Our opinions count for ZILCH.
I only know that 3 coaches, including our present coach,have selected Kirke on a regular basis.
Maybe they see something that you're all missing.
I bow to their superior knowledge of the game and the man.
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| Quote: tvoc "I'm not inclined to scrutinise these too closely but dude Moon, Kirke, Ablett are nowhere near close to being Leeds most 'accurate' tacklers of those that have made over 400 in 2013. They sit 10th 11th and 12th respectively of the twelve players I have on that list.
I don't have access to minutes played - I've tried but found it extremely time consuming even for the televised games let alone any of the others.
What we do have now though is those stats reported by Opta over a full Regular Round season and here are the key ones (IMO), just for the players generally regarded for the prop positions.
2013 Appearances (SL Regular Rounds Only, from a possible 27)
1 - Kirke – 26 (Inc 23 Subs)
2 - Peacock – 23 (Inc 1 Sub)
3 - Leuluai – 19 (Inc 2 Subs)
4 - Moore - 16 (Inc 13 Subs)
5 – Singleton - 14 (Inc 5 Subs)
6 - Bailey - 11 (Inc 1 Sub)
The following are all expressed as an average per appearance
Metres
Stats don't always tell the full story but these certainly tell us that JP is a beast!!!
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| Carries:
1 - Peacock - 23.57
2 - Leuluai - 12.00
3 - Singleton - 9.86
4 - Bailey - 9.00
5 - Moore - 6.94
6 - Kirke - 6.92
Metres Per Carry:
1 - Kirke - 7.32
2 - Leuluai - 7.15
3 - Moore – 7.12
4 – Singleton – 6.74
5 - Peacock - 6.63
6 - Bailey – 5.56
These two stats combined tell me that a large proportion of Kirke's carries are returning kickoffs. I see him every week and I don't see him rampaging through challenges and gaining yards better than peacock does. I see him crumble at contact.
If he made 3 carries that week I'll be at least one or two were kick returns menaing he volunteered himself to take the ball in once or twice.
Shocking that anyone would defend that.
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| Without going back through video, I can't confirm or deny that supposition but that's all it is isn't it G1 - a supposition?
Course the fact that the overwhelming majority of the kickoff/drop-out returns at Leeds are done by Peacock or Leuluai won't have hurt their figures either but we'll gloss over that inconvenience.
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "Without going back through video, I can't confirm or deny that supposition but that's all it is isn't it G1 - a supposition?
'" I could neither confirm nor deny your supposition that may assertion was mere supposition rather than accurate recollection.
Quote: Andy Gilder "Course the fact that the overwhelming majority of the kickoff/drop-out returns at Leeds are done by Peacock or Leuluai won't have hurt their figures either but we'll gloss over that inconvenience'" Overhwelming majority? Supposition Andy?
When kick returns form a much smaller percentage of your carries because you're not scared of taking the ball in then they will not skew the figures to the same extent they do for the BFG
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| Not supposition on my part, evidence based observation over a significant period of time.
The overwhelming majority of drop outs and kick offs go to the right hand side of the receiving team's formation, by virtue of most kickers in the league being right footed.
That tends to be where Peacock stands when Leeds are receiving restarts, or when Peacock is off the field where Leuluai goes. The two best ball carriers in the side, which makes sense given the space that is usually available particularly off GLDs.
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| Let me respond in kind but slightly less wordy.
I see Kirke return kicks plenty. I see Kirke take the ball in not much.
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| ..and whilst I can't recall the exact numbers a few weeks ago TVOC did watch the video and pointed out on a separate thread that at least two of Kirke's four or five carries that day were kick returns.
Even one is a very high percentage when you take the ball in so little.
I'll watch for it with my notepad tomorrow.
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| Quote: G1 "Let me respond in kind but slightly less wordy.
I see Kirke return kicks plenty. I see Kirke take the ball in not much.'" I have to agree with this
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| Quote: G1 "Carries
When evidence is produced that confronts your prejudice... you just make it up. Kirke has the best metres per carry of all forwards this year and has maintained this average over all our league games bar one. You pathetically try to make out that this has to be because he gets easy yards because he takes more of the kick returns than the other props. What utter nonsense.
You witter on about Kirkes poor number of carries without regard to the fact that this is not his main role and without regard for the number of minutes played. Yes his number of carries is low but if in addition he is making tackles every 40 seconds or so, as last week, please explain how his efforts for the side are any worse than his team mates?
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