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Quote: tvoc "EditLooks like my initial observation was spot. With that in mind are we willing to accept my immediate and random thoughts as being more accurate than Opta? If so, I don't expect them to be scrutinized going forward.

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Kirke and clarkson both had poor stats for the game, both for me should be given some time in the u20. Not too worried by clarksons form, sure he can turn it around long term

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Quote: G1 "
Quote: G1 "I didn't see a right lot of Kirke on Friday, '"
Hardly your fault shag.'"

icon_lol.gif
That takes me back a bit, probably to about 2003 when I first started reading the board. la

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Quote: G1 "
Quote: G1 "EditLooks like my initial observation was spot. With that in mind are we willing to accept my immediate and random thoughts as being more accurate than Opta? If so, I don't expect them to be scrutinized going forward.'"

You wish. You may be more knowledgeable than most on here, but un-scrutinized? I don't think so.

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Quote: The Eagle "I didn't see a right lot of Kirke on Friday, don't know how many minutes he was on, but 3 carries is pretty poor. How many tackles out of interest?'"


Kirke replaced Peacock while Sinfield was convertiing the Watkins score. The substitution was reversed in the 47th minute.

I made that around 18 minutes either side of the break. It coincided with a very sloppy period by Leeds categorised by poor handling when in possession and poor discipline when not. While the three carries doesn't sound a great deal (and isn't) it would also be interesting to see a comparison to the other Leeds players out there during that spell.

Unfortunately no-one will put any effort into doing such a thing because it's much easier not to.

__________

Quote: The Eagle "Looks like my initial observation was spot. '"


Yours and mine both on this occasion then, although I actual imagine you sat somewhere with a post-it note and biro headed up 'Ian Shirke drive/s'.

Quote: The Eagle "With that in mind are we willing to accept my immediate and random thoughts as being more accurate than Opta? '"


If we are it's only a sad commentary on the collectors of statistical data that some pundits and posters like to put great store by. I find them to be sadly lacking when put to the test.

Quote: The Eagle "If so, I don't expect them to be scrutinized going forward.'"


I've been trying to ignore your post match commentaries since Danny Buderus arrived.

___________

Phil Clarke during the aftermatch analysis programme showed a missed tackle stat of Castleford 18 Leeds 8 and Castleford 3 Leeds 10 for breaks. Opta on Monday report Castleford 27 Leeds 11 and Castleford 1 Leeds 9 for these categories.

Do Sky not use Opta?

Opta are also reporting Castleford conceded 5 penalties, I can show they conceded 6:

9th minute - High Tackle, Dixon on Leuluai
39th minute - Ball Steal, Chase on Jones-Bishop

48th minute - Grapple Tackle, McGoldrick on Hall
71st minute - Offside, take your pick
74th minute - Ball Steal, Emmitt on Peacock
76th minute - Re-start not travelling 10 metres, Dixon

It appears from the individual counts against the Castleford players that the 71st minute generic offside is the one that has been missed/ignored.

This is pretty basic stuff. If they can't be trusted to accurately reflect penalty counts it doesn't leave much hope for the rest, IMO. Still it gives Phil Clarke and others incapable of reading the game somewhere to hide.

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Quote: tvoc "I've been trying to ignore your post match commentaries since Danny Buderus arrived.
'"

You hurt my feelings.

G1
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Quote: tvoc "Kirke replaced Peacock while Sinfield was convertiing the Watkins score. The substitution was reversed in the 47th minute.

I made that around 18 minutes either side of the break. It coincided with a very sloppy period by Leeds categorised by poor handling when in possession and poor discipline when not. While the three carries doesn't sound a great deal (and isn't) it would also be interesting to see a comparison to the other Leeds players out there during that spell.

Unfortunately no-one will put any effort into doing such a thing because it's much easier not to.

__________

'"

Prepared for a surprise. It's a quiet night and our lass is out.

During the timeframe you mention the forwards made the following carries whilst Kirke was on the pitch:

Kirke: 2 carries (I agree with the official stats on this viewing)
Griffin 5 carries
Pitts/Clarkson 2 carries (Pitts was subbed by Clarkson during the 18 min)
Delaney 3 carries
Ablett 2 carries

However, the key indicator for me is the other bench prop, Griffin. Griffin was already on the field, having subbed Kylie, when Kirke was introduced so not as fresh but still made 5 carries, about what you'd expect from a front rower.

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I was hoping someone might rise to the challenge. Disappointed it was you - I can't afford your rates.

Quote: G1 "Kirke

From my notes taken when clarifying the Kirke carry involvement from the previous page Kirke made three.

Specifically:

1 - From the re-start after the Watkins score, McGuire collects and hands the ball on to Kirke (29:25) for the hit-up. Eddie Hemmings says 'Peacock again', Eddie Hemmings is wrong, Peacock wasn't even on the field having been replaced by Kirke.

2 - On the next Leeds set of possession, Kirke takes the hit up on the 3rd drive from a Sinfield pass (31:46)

3 - At the start of the second half, Kirke takes the 2nd hit up (no clock on screen but let's call it 40:10)

__________

Without checking Griffin's involvement particularly, I did note that for one of his carries over this period (39:45) he appeared to be part of a set passing play on the 1st tackle after a penalty.

His options appeared to be either 1) to hit Kirke with a flat ball in front of the line (Graham style) having committed defenders expecting the drive or 2) out the back where McGuire and Webb were running the backfield option.

As it happened Griffin did neither and took the tackle. Kirke's run on that occassion was part of the set play but he get's no recognition from Opta (fair enough they are not measuring dummy/support runs) or the bean counters on here ...... but Griffin does get credit for the drive despite only succeeded in shutting the play down.

That's only one example on one play as to why regurgitating Opta stats maybe fun (if probably inaccurate) but as I think we both agree can't ever replace the mark one eyeball and an understanding of what is happening out on the field.

G1
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Like Eddie I credited Kirke's 1st carry to Peacock so I am back to 3. Unlike Kirke I am all over the place.

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SS.com should sponsor Kirke to wear one of those GPS tracking devices worn by unsavoury types when he plays. That way we could have a live 'Kirke watch' during every game.

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Quote: BrisbaneRhino "SS.com should sponsor Kirke to wear one of those GPS tracking devices worn by unsavoury types when he plays. That way we could have a live 'Kirke watch' during every game.'"


Watching grass grow would be more entertaining.

Only kidding, 'Kirke-Watching' Kirke hiding in the middle of the field trying not to touch the ball does achieve ......... a010.gif

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And sometimes even when he does advance the ball, Opta - Eddie Hemmings - and even some usually knowledgeable Leeds fans, chalk up another carry to Jamie Peacock.

Having said that I'm not sure where Opta have placed the credit as they once gave Kirke a 40/20 that belonged to Rob Burrow and gave a farewell conversion success to Danny Buderus - although the Buderus goal has since been ammended looking at this: www.engagesuperleague.co.uk/stat ... eason=2012

Mistaking Peacock for Kirke - perhaps but Burrow for Kirke ..... really ..... come on.
And sometimes even when he does advance the ball, Opta - Eddie Hemmings - and even some usually knowledgeable Leeds fans, chalk up another carry to Jamie Peacock.

Having said that I'm not sure where Opta have placed the credit as they once gave Kirke a 40/20 that belonged to Rob Burrow and gave a farewell conversion success to Danny Buderus - although the Buderus goal has since been ammended looking at this: www.engagesuperleague.co.uk/stat ... eason=2012

Mistaking Peacock for Kirke - perhaps but Burrow for Kirke ..... really ..... come on.


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Quote: tvoc "And sometimes even when he does advance the ball, Opta - Eddie Hemmings - and even some usually knowledgeable Leeds fans, chalk up another carry to Jamie Peacock.

Having said that I'm not sure where Opta have placed the credit as they once gave Kirke a 40/20 that belonged to Rob Burrow and gave a farewell conversion success to Danny Buderus - although the Buderus goal has since been ammended looking at this:
Kirkes 40/20 was for 40 drives in 20 games

G1
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Quote: Tony Soprano "Kirkes 40/20 was for 40 drives in 20 games'"

Wrong way round. 40 games and 20 drives. I checked with Opta.

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Quote: BrisbaneRhino "SS.com should sponsor Kirke to wear one of those GPS tracking devices worn by unsavoury types when he plays. That way we could have a live 'Kirke watch' during every game.'"


I just saw that RU refs actually do wear those! You can track their bat$h1t decision all over the pitch electronically (although my reffing is always fair and correct).

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