For all of McNamara's criticisms, the one thing I felt he did really well was improve the team spirit. It no longer felt like a bunch of individuals or little groups determined by club friendship (the '08 WC Leeds-Saints divide for example) and I don't think they lacked belief in 2013 & 2014 that they could win (even though they came up just short).

Whilst not bad, I think that team togetherness wasn't as strong under Bennett and yesterday was a step back to 5/6 years ago when as soon as we went 2 scores down they looked to have accepted their fate.

With Hill you probably saw the effects of a full season in which he does a lot of minutes for Wire catch up on him a bit.

I was meaning going forward as a team, so in general. He is at least one of the players who matches his oppossite number at this level. Which is what I was saying on the earlier posts also.

I agree with a lot of what you have put. Regards Bennett though, he has been brought in to instil the belief and correct game plan to beat the big two. On both fronts he has fallen woefully short imo and i really don't see how he changes things for the WC next year as like you say he won't really be spending any decent time with the group before it.

for me, we were missing a real leader and game manager with a cool head and excellent kicking game. How we could do with former England scapegoat Mr Sinfield in this team which finally does have the capabilities of winning these games but looks rather rudderless with what we have at the moment in the halves. over the two games against the Aussies and Kiwis it has been the likes of Johnson, Thurston and Cronk that have been the biggest difference makers between the teams. We just don't have that quality in the halves right now and it shows big time.

I agree. Hadn't read all the earlier posts so apologies there.

Two minor things, Ireland are a far better RU side than either France or Wales.
Secondly, the role & massive influence of Cameron Smith appears to be overlooked.
Thurston to me now looks as if the years are finally catching up with him.
What a player he has been & his goalkicking yesterday was exemplary when it really mattered.
Cronk benefits massively from playing continually with Smith, two more future immortals but as Jonathan Davies said (one of the few proper insights he gave) when all three of these retire there will be ready made replacements taking over from them.
Something we can only dream about.

TBH England have been poor for the last 2 seasons. Versus NZ we were dour and uninspiring. We needed to raise our game after that and we didn’t. Some things that stood out for me:

1. We lacked intensity in defence. There was poor line speed and a lack of aggression. Occasionally we raised it but too often vs NZ and Australia we let their pack bully us – check out the metres made stats. The idea we have a good pack is a myth. On paper we might but not when it matters. The Burgesses are way out of form. Players struggled to read Hodgson, Bateman is too small, Hill was knackered, Taylor too ill disciplined, Farrell not good enough, Clark underused.

2. Our lack of dominance up front made it hard for the halfbacks and they lack the quality of Johnson/Cronk/Thurston anyway. Bennett wants a midfield general but there isn’t one. Williams is good running the ball but is dodgy defensively and apparently is “not vocal enough”. We need playmakers who can call the shots. Brown is too slow/past it. Gale isn’t good enough. Widdop is steady but need to be partnered with someone who can complement him. Answers on a postcard.

3. Our backs lack star quality. The wings are adequate but there’s nobody capable of doing anything special when it’s really needed e.g. Robinson/Offiah/Newlove/Davies etc. Lomax is steady but not going to worry the opposition. Percival is barely out of nappies. Watkins needs to get involved more and be more proactive and aggressive.

Where do we go from here? We need a combination of Wane’s grubby tactics in defence and Powell’s approach to attack. I don’t think we have the quality really and can’t see it coming through either unfortunately.

It's hard to disagree with Bullseye's analysis.

I disagree, it's not a dream it's a reality. We can easily replace all the mediocre players we have in the team now with similarly mediocre players. It's a never ending production line of mediocrity.

It kind of says it all when players that cannot get near an Australian shirts (namely the Morris', Heighington, Hodkinson and Willie Manu) were being touted as coups.

Well for once it can't be me - this is my first post on this thread

Criticism of the moderation process will not be tolerated.

You vill obeeeey!

I'm not keen on the throwing coaches together idea, The hope being that you get the best of both but potentially you just end up with a "too many cooks" scenario.

I mean look at Bennett's staff for this campaign. Had he ever spent any time in the company of or even spoke with the likes of Betts, Sculthorpe, Anderson and Peacock to see if they're a good fit for what he wants from his team? A few of those were very late appointments within a month of the tournament starting. Wouldn't any coach be better having a coaching staff he's worked with, knows and is compatible with instead of just throwing ex-England internationals at him?

Whilst Bennett has been successful in his career, it does happen in sport where great coaches & players go to a new team (and country) and it's just not the right fit and they've can't reproduce the success they've had at previous teams. Whilst it is only his first competition as England coach I'm just left thinking after what we've seen and heard that he just isn't the right fit for this job.

Speaking of former England internationals, one of Sinfield's roles in his new job was to lead a review of England's 4 Nations campaign so will be interesting to hear that.