Well then you're accusing nearly everybody on this board of making an excuse then if mentioning Aiton being a loss......without checking all your posts since he got injured I'd hazard a guess that you've at some point highlighted to the significance his absence will bring. Also the number of times you've excused Catslans because Carney was injured.....glass houses.

True three teams played a WCC....six months ago. We're talking about right now the likes of Hudds and Wigan have had 2 weekends off in the last 8 weeks, we've had none. Again that's pointing out the obvious, that you mistake people highlighting the obvious as "excuses" says more about your Meldrew mindset.....even to the point when you can't read a post about Phil Clarke without mistaking it for one about the referee.

I'd love Leeds to sign some like Andrew McCullough from Brisbane. I think he's exactly what we need, chances of that ever happening are slim though :

Desperate need for a hooker?

Or a more desperate need to stop missing cheap tackles, dropping cheap ball and giving away cheap penalties?

Yes but the point that is beyond your comprehension is that the teams that played in WCC had to peak early in the year and that would have effected their form afterwards. Just in the way you are saying the CC has impacted Leeds. Leeds should have built a bigger lead at the top - sadly the usual mid season slump cost them again. There current position has nothing to do with weeks off, it was Leeds' inability to capitalise earlier in the season. The fact you couldn't see the issues the super 8s were going cause this side says much and your bleating is exactly how you responded last year.

Saints have played the same number of games as Leeds and the CC final was hardly a high impact game now was it? I suspect the drinking afterwards had more impact than the game itself. It is not an excuse IMO - the squad was never deep enough and the inability to cover positions with appropriate youngsters is there for all to see. The coaching needs some attention.

Confirmed that Robbie Ward is leaving at the end of the season. Another one bites the dust in the trailer of young hookers shipped out of Headingley...

I'm sure it won't be long before Halmshaw is added to that list. Thankfully, Whitley looks the business, both in terms of skillset, and physicality.

I like Harvey Whiteley. A lot. Got everything you need from a hooker about his game.

I just hope whoever the club do bring in, there's still going to be room for him at Headingley if he fulfills his potential.

Like what? I am a fan of Harvey's and have watched him play for his local club for last two years, but until the last year, and only at Leeds he has only just become an hooker. Played scrum half at Oulton, just Leeds that switched him.

He is not to the level that Robbie Ward was at the same age. And despite Harvey's tenacity, speed, rugby brain, and stockiness, his biggest weakness, which I am not sure he can resolve, is his height, and it may stop him becoming long term hooker because of it.

Pretty much what you've just described, plus having the hands of a half-back.

He's still got time to finish growing yet, but I'm not convinced height is that much of an issue. Nathan Friend is 5-7, and it's not handicapped him from having a successful career in the NRL which we're given to believe is much more physically intense than SL.

Agreed.Issac Luke is about 5" 8 and is one of the best in the world.

Mitch Rein is 5'6 or 7 also, he's a cracking player.

Delaney looks shot and in bad need of a rest, Ablett same to a lesser extent. Even cuthbo and peacock look knackered.

Really hoping we get a class hooker and replace Achurch for a decent option to rest or spell Ablett/ward and Delaney as JJb is out until middle of next year.

I thought Mcshane was excellent again for us last night and I think he's another you let go. Agree on Ablett he looked absolutely shot last night. The ease that Cas forwards were swatting off his attempted tackles was embarrassing for a player whose tackling I have always rated.

Wembley aside, where Ablett to be fair was terrific defensively, he is doing what you are suggesting week after week. His problem is that he waits all the time and watches to see if others are tackling rather than getting on with it himself. There is many breaks that come through that do not get recorded as misses, as he actually is too late to make an attempt.

I am unsure why this is happening this season, when for the last few years he has regularly been up there as one of our top players.

I just think he is exhausted. JJB has missed of the season, Delaney missed a few, Achurch has been out/useless and even S Ward had a long spell out injured. He seems to have played a lot of games and just hasn't looked healthy or at 100%

Yes i agree it would've effected their form....30 weeks ago when it took place. We're talking about a game that was just 3 weeks ago (and only a few weeks after the Semi).



True, you did say the Super 8's would cause issues.
After you said before the start of the year we'd finish outside the top 4 (which didn't happen)
After you said we wouldn't beat the bigger teams (we've won plenty against them)
After you said at the mid-season slump that you couldn't see anyway Leeds would be top come the split (they were)
After you said all throughout the first half of the season that we had to wait until the Magic weekend and if we lose to Wigan it'll derail us like in 2014 (we did lose but we recovered and opened up another gap at the top of the table)

You've come up with so many scenarios of possible downfalls that you can't really sit their with a "I was right all along" attitude. Some phrase about Stopped Clocks spring to mind.



Yes and before the CC Final, Saints season was in danger of ending outside the top 4 with 3 defeats in a row and looking really poor.....a week off and suddenly they're refreshed and win 2 from 2 to get back on track. No mention of Hudds and Wigan having 2 weekends off in the last 8 weeks I noticed.



So basically you just want to blame the coach.

Ablett is the only ever present this year and it's showing.

I think Ward would've been totally burnt out had he not had a 6 week enforced absence with the amount of work he was doing.

Didn't realise he had played every game. I said well before the CCF that he needed a rest as his form was starting to show he was shot.

But Abletts being the same all year. I agree he is fatigued, but he started off the year the same.

He hasn't performed as consistently high as normal,no. I still think him being flogged to death hasn't helped

I always think of Ablett as someone who seems to always steps up in the big games.I am confident we will see a different player in the next few weeks than what we have seen the last few.He has earned the chance to do that i would say anyway.

Let's get some clarity here shall we:
The challenge cup final was a one sided walk over - would you say a 50-0 win at Wakey would have taken a lot out of a side - I wouldn't. They shouldn't go from reasonably good form to worn out and error strewn because of that game and what it took out of them surely?

I never said they wouldn't beat the bigger sides I said they would find it hard and so it has proved - against the top 8 sides they have lost to Wigan x2, Saints, Warrington, Catalans, Castleford x 2.

On Magic I said it would be interesting to see how the team reacted compared to last year - which I genuinely believe started the slump. I never said things would repeat themselves.

Saints have revived not because they had a week off - because their playmaker has suddenly hit some form - that has given the team some confidence/belief. You saw that last night Walsh looks a different animal that what we saw earlier in the season.

I have said before weeks off are not a guarantee of good form. How many knock out games did Leeds win against sides that had had the previous week off? The squad should be strong enough to play one game a week through the season the fact the coach seems reluctant to rest certain players is another matter.

The issues at Leeds are far more than the coach:
The strength of the squad is CEO issue - he makes the purchases, the forwards have lacked depth of quality and youth
The development of young players is a scouting and coaching issue - only one young player has made a mark this year and that is Handley who I doubt has a long term future at Leeds. With an ageing squad you have to question why we were playing Watkins injured and Ward on one leg in a game we needed to win against a team we should be better than.
Player performance - that's a coaching/conditioning issue. This team shouldn't look this lethargic at the business end of the season.

I picked Leeds to finish 5th - no doubt you picked them to finish 1st unless something changes - you never know the Giants are an enigma - I will be closer to being correct than you. Time will tell, I hope you are right and I am wrong.

I tipped 3rd actually by seasons end.

The cup final wasn't the toughest contest ever, but you seem to fail to understand that they would've still been aiming to peak for it regardless of the opposition. I doubt they were sat their on Monday morning saying "don't bother lads, we'll stroll this".

As for those losses you've listed I've always found it better to list both wins and losses (no surprise you just go for losses). We had quite a healthy W8 L5 record before Wembley. Against all Top 8 (Hudds seems absent in your list of top teams) we've managed a W15 L8 D1 total in all competitions this year. Before Wembley and these 3 losses that was almost a 75% win percentage against other top teams so I'm not sure you've "proven" anything.

next two games will prove who is correct. for me two years slump, a massive slump, after Wembley is unacceptable and raises issues which I think sal is partially correct on.
playing injured players because there are no alternatives, for a top side, is pathetic. that's the CEO as sal says. he is correct, in my opinion, about the squad strength, especially in the second row. keinhorst and achurch should only be squad players, not playing a lot of games.
again players being exhausted at this crucial time is, again, unacceptable. was nothing learnt by the conditioner, coach and CEO from last year?
had we some good youngsters or a larger squad we could have played a second string v saints and then come back fresh for catalan.

Yeah, I think any reasonable poster would conclude that Sal's likely to be spot on with some of the points he's raised on here. Bit strong to suggest that playing injured players is pathetic though: every side does it, the real question is the severity of the injury. Which I assume the club doctors have a better handle on than most on here.
I think exhaustion is almost as much a mental thing as a physical one at this stage. Get on a roll and your ok but if that bubble bursts then its a lot harder to put things right than at an earlier stage of the season. That's one of the coach's jobs and I was a bit worried how despondent McDermott seemed when interviewed after the match. I rather got the impression he felt he'd done all he could. Clearly, it wasn't enough. However, I'll be interested to see whether Shaun Wane is able to reinstate that feeling of invincibility into Wigan after last night. Always worth bearing in mind that there are some situations beyond the control of any coach, however good. Look no further than Tony Smith this year.
As for the selection v saints, we could have played more youngsters, some of whom are good. They might have made a fist of it in the way Hull's did against wigan last week. I'd have said ours were better. But in the euphoria of winning the cup, and following some of the rugby preceding it, not least against Saints, I think going with strongest available was understandable. Maybe an error in hindsight but an understandable one. we had looked invincible. I guess at the end of the day the game's coached and played by human beings, every one capable of f****g up.