That answered none of the questions I asked!

Who is squirming again?

So you think recieving the ball, after a headless chicken, flat footed, pedestrian attack with a line of defenders in front of you, you think watkins should be making hay in those situations?

I'm not saying watkins played well, it's a collective thing.

See excuses again, with others it's just "they're c**p".

How are they fresher? They will be at the end of the season when trophies are handed for reasons I mentioned already above.

Your argument about singleton and crabtree is just irrelevant, this is type of fog knitting I'm talking about. Singleton is young and no he didn't ''grab the chance to turn the game when he came on'', that's my f*cking argument. We rely too much on peacock and leuluai and we don't have enough grunt off the bench. Singleton is a good young player but he doesn't have the authority in the collisions yet. Crabtree is often used as an impact sub for Huddersfield. He's not spent nigh on 10 years doing circa 80 minutes including at international level.

Leeds weakness is their pack and their reliance on peacock. Every man and his dog can see it except some leeds fans.

I haven't called any players crap from tonight game.

Make up your mind, it was Peacock AND Leuluai the previous post now it's just Peacock.

I keep getting told that if they're "good enough then they're old enough" yet when a 'celebrated' youngster is picked out for criticism then it's a case of "he's young you've got to excuse him."

Make up your minds!

And the argument about Singleton/Crabtree is anything but irrelevant (just highlight you don't have an answer in reply). You want impact from the bench, well he was on the bench, did he impact? No. Now I know Kirke didn't either but I'm pretty sure only one will be getting the stick on here.

That is the actual point that some Leeds fans miss on here. Looking past whole team performances (bad issues wise) and saying the usual suspects are too blame/sh*t/need offloading.

A proper half back pairing needed or at least a scrum half.

Wire tactics seemed clear - enthusiasm and speed off the line in defence. Win the ruck and quick ptb keeping the ball in the centre and driving through the line. Leeds seemed to have little answer.
I'm not too sure what the Leeds tactics were to be honest. (Any thoughts?)
The first 20 mins were nip and tuck but then it was 60 mins of Wire.

That's a ridiculous post. First you pull me up on a technicality re peacock and leuluai.

Then you go on a random rant about defending young players.

Then you bring singleton and crabtree into it again which despite saying it was irrelevant still adressed it in my post.

Then you go on about blaming individuals rather than the team ([uwhen in a previous post you criticised watkins and i pointed out a TEAM attacking issue.[/u

I'm done.

Replying to you is just a cluster f*ck of random stuff being thrown at you.

Trying to ask you proper questions about rugby league when you're more interested in knee jerking.......duly noted as an error for future reference, as you'll throw the toys out of the pram.

P.S. Never actually blamed individuals, more a point about why others blame some and not others, but whoosh it went over you head.

Get a room please ladies.

Hardaker ,Abbo & Kylie were our best players tonight JP put his usual 100% effort in but was no at his effective best.
I have no qualms pointing out that Kirke is garbage but at the same time McGuire ,Clarkson ,Singleton ,Briscoe ,Moon(defensively) were very poor imo. Sutty showed some flashes of potential and I although pretty ineffective I thought S.Ward had a dig in a well beaten side.
We were battered with and without the ball the best team won & thoroughly deserved it but its concerning when players like Chris Bridge are looking like world beaters.
It was quit refreshing listening to MC.D's reaction lets see who pays the price next week with losing their place.

What happened, Leeds were as poor as I've ever seen them?

Really? You didn't see us in 2011 or 2012?

When you beat us by more, ONLY an 18 point winning margin for Wire tonight considering it was their best of the year and our Worst is more worrying for their fans tonight I reckon.

We were so bad you'd put 40/50 points past us in previous years, and you still couldn't lift the GF then.

But this year we've been well below, I even had Leeds easy on the predictions

Oh well if you had them on your predictions that settles it.....we're fu**ed!

Tbh I think Leeds fans could see this coming. I think we've been getting worse over recent weeks while Wire have been getting better. After a recent game McDermott admitted we had some very tired bodies and I think we played like that tonight, coupled with a poor kicking game and an enthusiastic Wire side.

I think McDermott had it spot on in his post match interview, not enough Leeds players wanted the ball and we were soft in the forwards.

So we're rubbish and put 18 on you! Agreed a wire team of 2/3 years ago would've got 40 but we can't cope with your upper hand. You did us by two points in that semi and deserved that grand final 8 point victory. I wish us wire fans would ignore the two Wembley mullerings we gave you along with the recent league batterings. When was the last time you absolutely battered us? Genuine question. It's one semi and one final to you and two finals to us as I see it recently! Feel free to dismiss us. You have the best back five by a long way but other than the God jp I looked at your pack tonight as very very weak

Same problems as previous two defeats :-
1. Enthusiastic opposition rolled us over.
2. Pack made up of too many 30 plus who are struggling to cope.
3. Ablett aside - rest of pack are light weight.
4.Half backs are slow,slow slow ! We desperately need some pace.
5. No good blaming the backs when the forwards & half backs don't perform !

I don't think the over 30's in the pack are the problem ie Peacock & Leuluai I think the problem is they have little to no support.
I think Delaney would have helped tonight, but it was just a poor, tired performance from our forwards and it's time for the likes of Kirke & Bailey to step up or time to get rid.

I don't buy this players are tired rubbish - they have played 4 intense games and got beat in three and drew one. These are professional athletes surely one game a week isn't beyond them?

The problem is the key players are too old and too slow. McGuire is slow but he is positively Bolt like compared to Sinfield. We need some pace in the halves if we are to ever get the best out of the back line. McDermott needs to decide what he is doing with Sutcliffe - at the moment this confusion isn't helping the attacking formation.

Printer can say what he likes but having both starting props who are nearer 40 than 30 is going to impact team performance. You cannot defy biomechanics!! Why not start Singleton and use one or the other as an impact player.

The hooking position is an issue at the moment I would keep going Ward - he will never get up to speed watching from the stands.

The comments about only losing by 18 and it would have been 40 previously I ask this - is that because Leeds' defence is so much better or because without Briers Warrington aren't the attacking force they once were?

Our pack is getting bullied by hungrier, younger more aggressive packs. As well as legally, there's plenty of niggely cheap shots we receive that in the past opposing players wouldn't have got away with. Rather than deal with it ourselves, we plead to the ref - "did you see what he just did?".

Most of the team let themselves down last night.

This last tackle chaos needs to stop as well. This tactic of slinging the ball out wide and letting an outside back hoof it down field is amateur. I understand it happens if there's too much pressure on one of the half backs but even when there isn't McGuire passes it on.

To all those critising McGuire, Sinfield was equally poor. The only time he's effective is when he's spelled at hooker.

And while I'm at it, Peacock's first half performance was woeful. As bad as Barrie McDermott's at home against Bradford the week before we placed Hull in the CC Final.

He should have been spelled after 20 minutes.

Brian McD cannot control JP he is a law to himself. If the coach tried to pull him off he'd tell him where to go.

Peacock in particular - Wigan had his number at HQ and the magic and Warrington certainly had his number last night and that was after a week off.

The thought of him and Kylie trotting around for another season doesn't give me glowing feeling