Take the GF win aeay we still were good enough to finish 2nd and actually get to the GF, we need some signings for sure but our players haven’t suddenly turned into rubbish players.

I get where you are coming from, logically they shouldn't have, but my eyes tell me a different story. Joel Moon is a good example, he should still be one of the best players not only at the club, but in the league, and he's been chronic this year for whatever reason. We have lots of similar cases, Sutcliffe has reversed at such a rate (from the player who kept Sinfield out in 2015) he should consider having beepers fitted

I hope that with a serious coach in place for next year that many of our average to poor performers can become average to good, and that we add 3 or 4 more high quality, proven additions in key places, otherwise we will tread water for the next 12 months. With some realistic changes we could aim for 4-5 place next year and then a serious challenge again the year after.

The challenge is recruiting those proven high quality players. Many are under contract. Clubs will be unwilling to sell unless the fee is so large they can justify it to their sponsors and supporters. Is GH really likely to spend big? He’s not exactly known for it. Also recruiting proven players from the NRL is tricky given the difference in salary caps nowadays so you end up going for someone with off field problems. Do you want that? Anyone decent down under will be staying there if they can help it. I think you're more likely to pick players up from other SL clubs when their contracts are up or returning English NRL players.

Back in 2006-2010 we replaced proven quality (Peacock, Vainikolo, Hape, Vagana etc) with far lower quality players (Simon Finnegan, Tame Tupou, Chris Nero, Chris Feather etc) yet apparently and bizarrely were still paying up to the cap limit. I expect you’re the same but admittedly not to the degree of naffness we were at.

I think (hope) that when (if) we are safe in the middle 8s we should see some announcements.

I think we need a halfback (already sorted) a second row, prop and centre to at least compete next year but the big one will be the head coach, I reckon the person is lined up already.

The problem with us is likely to be that players have been up graded with contracts beyond their actual ability since the obvious greats have moved on.i don't believe the cap space is as big as some on here assume for that very reason.

early season we started off quite well we beat saints and Wire away ,we blew decent leads and lost and lost quite a number of games by the odd point we could have won . we've had some shockers too

This for me is why this season has been so frustrating, we haven’t actually been walloped all that often.

We lost by a drop goal to, Castleford, Wigan, Hull and then had a great performance with an injury hit team against Saints who were at the time flying again losing by a drop goal, had we managed to hang on for a draw or actually managed those games better and won we wouldn’t have been in the middle 8s

We were also in control of the games against warrington and Catalan at home, the Catalan game was one of the most frustrating games ive seen, A.because we threw it away and B. Because Catalans played totally against the spirit of the game that evening.

Back ending contracts is quite common in a capped sport - it means you can pay Sinfield etc properly, but on the promise that bit part players will get rises later. The problem is that the bit part players are then on high salaries which stops replacing stars with real quality when they retire. Manly and the Bulldogs have both suffered horrendously from this, with their squads having to be almost completely rebuilt - the Dogs squad this year was literally awful but if they had retained everyone they would have been well over the cap (Greg Eastwood was apparently on $750k and refused to take a cut, so has earned mega bucks whilst largely playing reserve grade).

Its a difficult balancing act, but I suspect a bunch of our existing squad are in for a shock when they look to re-sign - they either won't get offers or they'll be far lower than they're currently on. Of the current squad Watkins is the only player we have who should be anywhere near marquee style wages. Hopefully in terms of total salaries we'll see some of the back ended contracts roll off and we can actually look to recruit a few genuine quality players.

We are not playing the kids and have not done for years under b mcd. Walker and Golding are the only 2. Others flew the nest

Full of kids next season.

Smith, Oledski, Handley, newman?

Over 5 plus years that's not good

As DHM said, a club our size should have one or two juniors every year knocking hard on the door for first team - if Leeds can't then SL is literally doomed. Smith and Oledzki coming through this year is what should be happening every season. It hasn't, and we've got too many players like Handley, Golding and Sutcliffe who have been around for quite a while and played a lot of games but who ought to have been bypassed or at least pressured for a spot by quality juniors.

Walker, Smith and Oledzki suggest the conveyor belt has got moving again, but we're seeing the effect of not having enough quality home produced players over a long period as we have so few at the supposed peak of their careers (Ward? Singleton?).

Exactly. Cam we really name 6 players to have come through on 3 to 5 year's ago that are still here. I'll start with Golding.

2013. No Paul Mcshane. No Liam hood. No Mulhern. No Ben jb.

No Alex Foster

To be fair though there are always players who will take time to mature and only at that stage do we find out how good they'll be. A decision needs to be made at some point, otherwise you'd end up having peripheral potential players all over the shop. The decisions won't always be right but someone has to make them.

Many of the players people are naming would, if they'd have stayed, been bracketed over the intervening years when we were waiting for them to come good as one of those wasting salary cap and blocking the progress of youngsters.

Besides walker golding and both handley and lilley to some extent. We have had no big breakthroughs in 5 years now. Singleton took a bit if time to keep a 1st team selection too

Give Oledski the number 8 shirt + give Smith the number 13. Play them. Give them the platform to develop their talents.

CREATE OUR OWN STARS

There is one way of finding whether they are good enough - play them

At least they will fight for a place in the team

This week's predictions
Salford to beat Toronto
Widnes to lose against Leeds
London to beat Toulouse
HKR to beat halifax

Anyone disagree with these this week

Agree with 3 - think Tolouse will beat London

possibly the London game. that will be tight

Watching Toronto finish so strongly against Salford has me scared given how poor we've been finishing games.