| FORUMS > Leeds Rhinos > Referees |
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "
As offside calls go, that one was about the least dubious you will ever see. I'm sure I don't have to bring up the whole Lee Smith/Grand Final thing again if you want an example of what a dubious offside call looks like.'"
You beat me to it. IMO shocking decision. I've tried looking for what the offside rule actually says but haven't found one that says the players feet must be behind the ball. If someone can show me then I'll be happier to accept the call but it was still borderline. |
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There is an issue with consistency, most notably holding down at the PTB, but as has been mentioned the ref's make very few blatant mistakes. The amount of times I've got annoyed at the reffing when watching the game live, then gone home, seen it on tv and found that the ref was pretty much spot on. And has also been mentioned that any "close" decision is immediately classed as controversial especially when its live on TV.
The Lee Smith try in the grand Final is a perfect example. The VR gave a correct decision, yet simply because it was close people went crazy over it.
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| Quote: finglas "You beat me to it. IMO shocking decision. I've tried looking for what the offside rule actually says but haven't found one that says the players feet must be behind the ball. If someone can show me then I'll be happier to accept the call but it was still borderline.'"
Happy to oblige
"A player is off side except when he is in his own ingoal if the ball touches, is touched, held or kicked, by
one of his own team behind him."
So for Lee Smith to be onside, Danny McGuire must not have been behind him. Level is onside.
The laws are not specific about body parts, but I would take it as being some part of the chasing player must be at least level with some part of the kicker. So if Smith's back foot is level with McGuire's kicking foot at the point McGuire strikes the ball, he's onside on that interpretation. |
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "Happy to oblige
"A player is off side except when he is in his own ingoal if the ball touches, is touched, held or kicked, by
one of his own team behind him."
So for Lee Smith to be onside, Danny McGuire must not have been behind him. Level is onside.
The laws are not specific about body parts, but I would take it as being some part of the chasing player must be at least level with some part of the kicker. So if Smith's back foot is level with McGuire's kicking foot at the point McGuire strikes the ball, he's onside on that interpretation.'"
I can see what you're saying but whilst I can accept the argument the lack of clarity means that it could be interpreted differently and IMO other referees may well have given a different decision.
I try to think of myself as a reasonable person and my best gauge is would I accept it if that try was given against Leeds. I don't think I would in this case.
Just imagine this scenario. A PTB from a yard out. Wayne McDonald lies down and stretches out with his feet behind the dummy half. The dummyhalf kicks the ball straight to Wayne who touches it down. That is just as legal but IMO that player is clearly in front of the kicker. Do you think any ref would allow that try? |
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| Quote: finglas "
Just imagine this scenario. A PTB from a yard out. Wayne McDonald lies down and stretches out with his feet behind the dummy half. The dummyhalf kicks the ball straight to Wayne who touches it down. That is just as legal but IMO that player is clearly in front of the kicker. Do you think any ref would allow that try?'"
I would hope so yes, because unless its Francis Meli defending the kick the opposition should be able to catch the ball before it gets to McDonald laying on the floor  |
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| Quote: BigRob "I would hope so yes, because unless its Francis Meli defending the kick the opposition should be able to catch the ball before it gets to McDonald laying on the floor ![]()
If we start allowing advantages because the opposition are crap referees (apart from Ganson) will have to review all their rational fordecision making. 
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| Quote: finglas "I can see what you're saying but whilst I can accept the argument the lack of clarity means that it could be interpreted differently and IMO other referees may well have given a different decision.
I try to think of myself as a reasonable person and my best gauge is would I accept it if that try was given against Leeds. I don't think I would in this case.
Just imagine this scenario. A PTB from a yard out. Wayne McDonald lies down and stretches out with his feet behind the dummy half. The dummyhalf kicks the ball straight to Wayne who touches it down. That is just as legal but IMO that player is clearly in front of the kicker. Do you think any ref would allow that try?'"
It'd be a helluva stretch, he's currently in Dubai  |
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| Quote: Old Feller "So that's why they had to build this to house him.
 Bravo sir.
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great article by jamie peacock in RL world where he seems to suggest there is nothing wrong with the refs, just the man in charge of them
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Looking through the stats section of RLFans, I came across statistics for referees. Alibert took charge of 7 Leeds games (and the same for Quins) over the past season and a bit, whereas Wigan only had him twice. The same goes for other referees but as the stats are given for a referee's entire SL career, it would take a bit more working out to see which sides they referee the most per season.
Do any of the resident boffins know what is taken into account when deciding upon the referee for a particular game as it is evidently not done at random?
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "The ball was lost forward (relative to the ground, not the player), not passed. It was not re-gathered by the same player who lost it forward, but by a team-mate before it hit the ground.
"If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it
touches the ground, a goal post, cross bar or an opponent, then play shall be allowed to proceed."
The player knocking-on did not regain the ball. Therefore it's a knock-on, not a forward pass and something on which the VR is perfectly entitled to adjudicate.
On the second point
That doesn't actually mention a teammate though.
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| Quote: Andy Gilder "On the second point
Andy, I think the rules can be a little unclear because of the situation of a player being 'out-of-play' at the ptb (as Webb was), can come back into play if the opinion of the ref the advantage of them being out of play was lost - "A player who is out of play may again take part in the game when the advantage gained by not retiring has been lost." If you take this statement out of the rules, it would be clear cut, but with it, it is the ref's or video ref's judgement that counts.
Now, in the case of Webb he did gain an advantage (in my eyes and the video refs) at being in an offside position at the ptb and the rules clearly state that Players who are out of play at a play-the-ball do not get automatically put onside - "Players who are out of play at a play-the-ball (Section 11)... are not
put “on side” in the manner described in para 3 above" with of course the para 3 reading as follows -
Placed onside
3. An off side player is placed onside if:
(a) an opponent moves ten metres or more with the
ball.
(b) an opponent touches the ball without retaining it.
(c) one of his own team in possession of the ball
runs in front of him.
(d) one of his own team kicks or knocks the ball
forward and takes up a position in front of him in
the field of play.
(e) he retires behind the point where the ball was last
touched by one of his own team.
So the video ref did get this correct in my opinion, but you have to acknowledge that this particular incident was maybe not as clear cut in the rules as you are arguing.
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If I didnt criticise the players when they made mstakes then I could see the argument about not criticising the referees
If a leeds player bombs a try then I would shout in the heat of the moment about what an idiot he was
I do the same with the referees when they make mistakes
both have chosen a career that is in the public eye and are supposedly the best at what they do and both are paid wages from the income the spectators generate, therefore criticism must be expected along the same lines
given that rugby league has progressed so far becasue its aim is to please the crowds then why shouldnt the RFL know if fans feel a part of the game is not up to what it should be
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