I agree, but so should Wigan.

We do need far more first half defensive aggression. We have all season. Starting every game on the back foot then expecting to go up through the gears isn't sustainable every game. That much is down to coaching and playing instructions. The first half was like a training session for Abdull last night.

I'm absolutely sure.
I said on paper.
On paper, Austin and Sezer's pedigree is way ahead of Lewis and Abdul (same principle you've applied with Parcell and O'Connor) - but the reality is clearly very different.
On paper, a 28 year old Fusitua should be better than a 35 year old Ryan Hall. Cleary the reality is different.
On paper, our fully fit pack is stronger than their pack from last night - but it was no contest.

We can agree on one thing Arthur, 7 games in and we're already looking ahead to next year's recruitment...

Games aren’t played on paper - good job because if they were it would have been a sodden wet mush

We lost games at the start under the old regime. Smith took over and we won more. We’ve now seemingly regressed under Smith the longer he’s in charge. If we keep going as we are, basically win one lose win, we’ll be lucky to make the top 6. Don’t see how that’s progressing towards being a force again.

Our tactics were never going to win through last night, I'll give you that. Never able to generate enough ruck speed, even with no lying on scrambling upright, clean ptb and anything bar the simplest passing out of dummy made very difficult by the conditions.

I still haven't given up on them being ultimately successful though. Under drier conditions, that slow line speed and a preference for 2 men in the tackle - and I think both are deliberate -encourages the opposition to play quick. There's a lot of teams that don't do that well, especially over the full 80 as fatigue and errors start creeping in. Us allowing a quick ptb steers refs towards ensuring the opposition does the same which makes for our kind of game. And we've seen it happen, albeit not often enough.

As of now, it's strictly theoretical and you might be spot on in terms of where we finish if we stick with it. But I think Smith's every bit as stubborn as Brian McDermott and sticking with it's exactly what we will do. I'm cautiously optimistic it'll improve with drier tracks* and if it does prove the antidote to lying on, 5 drives followed by a kick to corners etc then I'll be ecstatic.

*I'm aware September & October can be wet months

Is top 6 what we should be aiming for? I think Leeds should be aiming for top 4 minimum, and a cup semi each season. To get top 4 we would need to win around 60% of our games (this should be doable for a club with our resources). We’re currently at 43%, and would need to win 13 of our remaining 20 regular season games a success rate of 65%. I don’t see that happening at the moment do you?

If we were to finish 4th, that would mean we are likely competing with St Helens, Warrington, Wigan and probably Catalans. We’ve beaten two of those this season, but we’re losing to teams we should be beating. If we’re not aiming for top 4, we’re accepting standards that are too low in my opinion.

This season isn’t over by any means, but it’s not looking like a step forward either. The recruitment for next year is pivotal to the development of the younger players as they start to come into the team or consolidate there. We need to replace most of the spine with much better more consistent quality leaders, who can help the kids to come through. If we get it right, we’re on the way back to where we should be, get it wrong and we’re stuck on another loop of cap tied up in the wrong players.

The next 12 months are very important to the next 5 years or more.

Was always going to be about next season when Smith joined IMO, the cap has been so badly managed it was never going to get fixed in Smiths first full year.

Look at Watsons first year at Hudds and likewise Powells at Warrington.

However I haven’t written us off this year, we could go on and win something.

A lot of delusion on here isn’t there!? I would’ve been hugely disappointed to have lost to Leeds as I think your halves are second worst to only Wakefields halves and you pack really isn’t up to much - plus you have no depth.

Guy who keeps banging on about man for man, there’s probably only 4 players I would take from your starting 13.

As for Myler making a difference, he’s shocking under the highball and it doesn’t matter who Abdul comes up against - his bombs are horrible to take. I was actually disappointed Myler didn’t play as I don’t rate him in the slightest.

Fusatua (spelling) has never and will never be better than Ryan Hall who would still walk in to any starting 13 in the division.

Reality is - you’re now very much a mid level club who massively over achieved last year, but keep telling yourselves different if it strokes your egos….

Oh, and the score line absolutely flattered Leeds fwiw.

Im still a fan of Smith, but think he's maybe teetering the wrong side of the line separating fresh/new ideas and ignoring the principals of successful rugby at the moment. The slow, connected line speed was literally the worst tactic we could of used in those conditions with that kicker last night, we practically invited them into putting bombs up with the ammount of ground we surrenderd.

Feel like he's attempting to reinvent the wheel at the minute, the signs were there in Pre season, with what appeared to be way too much unnecessary piddling about with positions etc and has carried over into our season to date imo.

Really feel for Sam Walters aswel, if the teams picked on form, he should not of been dropped for the Cas game or last night.

If the scoreline flattered Leeds that means your not as good as you think you are, if were that bad and you only managed to outscore us by one try and every one of your trys came from absolute howlers, what does that say about your team?

We’ll be fine, enjoy your cup final next weekend, it will probably be the closest you get to one for a while yet

So why didn't you win by more then?

Truth hurts doesn’t it lads. Ta ta.

Spot on Cluester.

After the Catalans game Smith said he wanted to back up from the performance and gain some consistency.....so what happened during the weeks prep? Also thought Johnson added spark last week why was he dropped, people say Smith is a maverick but atm he's more of a chancer its games like last night that shows a teams carracter fight and team spirit all sadly lacking.

Yawn

Sums him up when you're main organising player is getting praise for defence and nowt else.

This reads like we got mullered last night, it was 3 trys to teo and 2 to 1 in the second half, team spirit and fight were there last night, it was errors that killed us.

The way dome of our supporters are turning on Smith is s bit embarrassing IMO

Two try assists as well

Agees. Players were trying too, just one off those nights where nothing went for us……

You would think we had just got absolutely smashed.
It was 20-12 and we gave away a ridiculously easy try at the start of the second half.
It was awful weather, the ruck was painfully slow, we had a fullback making his SL debut, our winger went off early, we are playing away, that is a horrible ground to play at, they have probably the best kicker in SL, some of our back 3 had absolutely awful performances. And with all that we lost by 8 points.
I see some points about line speed and passive defence. Our defence isn’t passive when we are defending close to opposition line. Just watched some NRL this morning there wasn’t super fast line speed. Just because saints defend like that is doesn’t mean it’s the only way to defend. Players clearly instructed to apply line speed depending on field position, maybe it’s just the players aren’t good enough to do what is being asked?
Secondly, Leeds are not going to be consistent, the way they play is not set up for it. Could Hull get near a GF, no they couldn’t, because they play super structured, apply pressure and score from being close to the line. That’s how a number of teams play and the other teams play it much better. Could Leeds get to a GF, yes they could. Why - because they play differently, far more off the cuff, hot and cold and they can win one off games. Now i know a lot won’t like that but it’s true. It’s going to be entertaining, up and down and there will be awful performances along the way. Just going to have to accept that is where we are and that is the team we are at the moment.

We've had too many of 'those nights' in the opening stages to this season warrington, cas, Wakefield first half, Hull, cats first half really irratic, KR. it is worrying because playing badly is more the norm so far accounting for about 5 of the 7 games we've played. Martin last week was the embodiment of leeds this year, sublime one minute, ridiculous the next.

Great post

I can see Walters signing for another SL club.His stats last week were better than Sangnare and Lisone.More tackles and hit ups.I hope he starts against Huddersfield.I would play Tet in the backrow.

Walters will get plenty game time this year, we’re actually pretty well stocked in the forwards for once so they will get rotated.

Think we’ll see Martin in the centres for an extended period with Macdonald on the wing so Tet may well get used as a SR