Same as every other game this season.

Leaving one player on bench while he flogs the others.
No control , direction or tactics shown by any of the three or four half backs used.
Stupid penalties, maybe from over worked forwards
No proper hooker (or FB now) leading to odd or bizarre subs and player positions .

In a perverse way getting beat today has some well hidden positives.

Having won the previous two some were getting giddy about making the top 8 with McD still spouting it too. If we had scraped in by a miracle I fear the club would point to the training ground and injuries as justification for a poor first half of the season and not addressed the key issues.

As it is we now have a number of players back so we do look a little better but it's clear we have no leader, game manager or clear influence so we need to recruit to fill those roles. It's also clear the coaches aren't capable of helping the players understand what they need to do. A full review is needed.

Assuming we don't get relegated, I agree. This season is now shaping up to be a watershed event. Had we scraped into the Super 8s or been just outside the top 8 a lot of nonsense could have been used to hide the team's shortcomings (blah blah injuries blah blah training ground blah blah Zak Harakder blah blah). As a result we may have had to suffer longer than expected, whereas its as clear as day that major changes are required, both on and off field.

Some of the facts are quite mind-boggling:

- finishing bottom after the regular season for the first time
- worst attack and close to worst defence in the competition (and so obviously points difference).
- longest losing run for 60 years
- so far the lowest win percentage in the lowest in the club's history (we're currently on 23% from all games vs 27% in 1899-1900). I fully expect a couple of wins against Championship teams to push this up.
- possible to have a top try scorer with less than 10 tries for the first time since 1943-44.

Any one of these factoids ought to send alarm bells ringing. Take them together and it adds up to a heap of steaming garbage as a season. After last year, had we crept into the Top 8 I couldn't have argued against BM staying or just tinkering with the squad. The same would probably have been true if we narrowly missed out on the 8. As it is I really can't see how he can be allowed to carry on next year, or how anyone can not see the need for major surgery on the squad.

First I was afraid, I was petrified......now I really don't give a ****.

If McDermott isn't gone by the end of the season (and I mean the calendar end, the competitive season ended for Leeds months ago) and there isn't a serious overhaul of playing staff then I can't see that I'll give a **** next year either.

I kind of like agree with your points, and your first two paragraphs. And if just a normal game was played tomorrow, I would be wholly confident of winning against championship oppossition. However, if we are in the million pound game, which is not just a normal game, and regardless of the oppossition, I just can not see this team winning it. It has no leadership or game management at all, and regardless of players back that isn't going to change. I just think there would be too much pressure on us, and this team can not handle it. Hopefully Segayaro will be the superstar we crave, to ensure the wins are in the bank to avoid playing that one game.

But the changes needed going forward, are far bigger than some posters seem to appreciate, much much bigger.

Apart from this weeks new arrival the club has done f... all to address the shambles that is this season. How on earth mac is still in charge is beyond belief. Too stubborn is the problem. Mac wont walk n heth wont push him as then he has to accept failure.ABSOLUTE SHAMBLES!

Playing without a recognised hooker and bringing in Golding to FB meant we were already up against it.
Whilst I am not a big fan of Sutcliffe certainly at 6 he is much better at FB than Golding who I thought had a bright future.
Golding needs to go out on loan next year for a full year and Sutcliffe needs to be given more time (again) this time at FB.
Falloon should have played yesterday without doubt and Keinhorst should have come on for Briscoe who has in the past played hooker reasonably well.
The coach it seems has lost the plot and the players instead of taking the blame themsleves for not winning that game yesterday in particular McGuire and Burrow who should know better have gone into sulking mode and look likely to blame the coach for everything.
We had enough experience out there to win against a spirited well coached Widnes.
For me the coach and several players need to move on next year.
Getting relegated might just see that happen if we don`t get a grip.

Don't worry - you will still end up beating us on Friday as you always do!

I doubt it but at least it makes the top 4 interesting probably to the last game of the season.
Only Wigan seem to want to finish top whilst the other 3 keep throwing it away.

If we are having a blip - would rather have it now with Top 4 virtually assured

Yes naming them is obviously a great idea. But it's one of the players.

Really??

Shouldn't that read, "after such a long period of dominating the competition, Leeds have had 4 shocking months"

Interesting reading Hull FC fans who were after Radford's head last year, complaining about Leeds fans being after McDermott's head this year.

I look forward to Hetherington and McDermott's end of season review concluding that their collective failures have resulted in such a poor season. Like that's going to happen.

They've had their excuses lined up since March, bulletproofing themselves against the fall out. The problem with creating a culture of excuses that drip down from the top of the structure is that the players start to buy into them and feel sorry for themselves when things aren't going well, believing there was nothing they could do to stop it from happening.

I said it before, Brian Mac was part of a coaching team - Mac, Sinny and JP. Between the three of them they instilled discipline, game management and work ethic. Together a formidable force.

Remove two elements from this equation and what you have is a coach that seems massively out of his depth.

Players leaving, rumored that several other players are wanting to leave. Players playing with a lack of passion and commitment while other players taking a dogs age to return from seemingly minor injuries.

Lilley currently playing at Fev when he's been our brightest player so far this season.
Jimmy Keinhorst, who hasn't put a foot wrong all year benched for the entire game.
Ash Golding on the bench as an interchange FB... who the fekk interchanges their full back out of choice????
No recognised Hooker (apart from the one watching from the stands)
...and a half time team-talk that motivated the guys to go from a 12 point lead to losing the game without scoring another point.

Soz Bri but it's time to fall on your sword, I honestly believe that the team would do better without you (lets face it... they couldn't do much worse). You're a dead weight holding back what we know can be a winning team.