This is the problem - on-one knows how to. For the past decade we've had two outstanding players who have shouldered this responsibility while everyone else sat back and listened, took note and did what was asked of them.

Now we have nobody doing the asking and nobody who knows how to ask. The void left by KS and JP is way, way too big to fill and it is becoming all to obvious that BMcD is just as much at a loss as the rest of his charges.

There is no 'quick fix' that I can see for Leeds. For the past 10 years we've relied on two players to lead the team on and off the field and we now need to learn how to get on without them - this is going to take time. Changing the ingrained culture that is currently with the Leeds team is not something that can be done overnight.

The potential South Stand demolition could be a real face saver for GH, 11-12 thousand a game would fill the reduced capacity Headingley nicely. There is no doubt such a terrible season will impact on crowds next year, the drop off may not be massive this year due to such big season ticket sales for the current season. A lot of first timers won't be in a hurry to renew, and the big push for family packages can rocket your season ticket sales, but also have a dramatic effect if a few hundred families decide not to renew at 4,5 or even 6 tickets per group. There is a cut off point where fans call it a day, Sky obviously won't help when a more remote supporter is deciding whether to travel or not, and the generation weaned on success may prove to be quite fickle. There are many other factors that dictate a drop off in numbers, but playing such rank bad Rugby League is top of the list. It has been interesting to stand particularly amongst the way following, and to listen how bitchy some quickly become towards the players. It's only a minority, but you'd think you were stood next to Wayne Bennett the way they are so simplistic in their solutions to our teams woes. I'll carry on going home and away this season, I think it's only fair to support the lads that have given us so many happy times over the last 12 years or so. As long as the effort is there I'm happy to shell out and give them some support when they need it most.

Agree with a lot of above comments. tragically for me I have the Leeds RL disease with no known cure. I have watched some utter garbage in the past and seen dreadful management. The GH era has been far and away the best. So for me the point is when I get sent downstairs to live permanently with the Salford mascot.

Be interesting to see what happens with season ticket and matchday pricing for 2017, given the South Stand won't be available for a chunk of the season.

Could be hard to get back some of those who are unable/unwilling to get to games in the early part of the season unless the fare on offer improves.

Never stop going especially after some of the garbage we've stood through over the years.
Fwiw i think GH will get the msg as soon as those attending turn on Mc.D in greater numbers thats unlesss he pulls the trigger before because in all honesty an early CC exit & its season over.

I dont think people will stop going to watch Leeds all together, and even if we have a bad season I dont think season tickets will decrease significantly, it would probably only go down as much as it went up last year.

The reason attendances may drop is because people who usually make home games a priority will be much more likely to cancel or move other plans if we are playing poorly every week.

There will not be a mass exodus of fans becuase of just one season as you describe

Look at Leeds united, it took around 5/6 years of being in a lower division for their attendences to dramatically drop from what it was in the prem

So the solution to all our ills is to get rid of the most successful coach we have ever had? I know some have had it in for him ever since he first arrived and have been longing for the time when they could say they were right all along (despite being proven wrong for so many years!)

But really our problems are down to a number of circumstances that each on their own would normally be overcome but combined together become a recipe for disaster... a bit like a plane crash.

To keep to the analogy - we are all on a flight and one of the engines has broken and the other one has lost power (because the maintenance hanger was flooded) so we stalled and are now in a steady dive but haven't hit the ground yet. But it is approaching fast. The senior experienced pilots have both retired and this is the first proper flight in charge for the new captain. The rest of the flight deck crew are not at their best due to eating a dodgy prawn salad so they are not recovering the descent as they were trained to do and they are not listening to the air traffic controller. Meanwhile some of the passengers are hysterical and are asking for parachutes, others are shouting through the flight deck door telling the pilot how to fly and the queue for the toilets is getting longer.

The solution is to stay calm and not panic. There are signs (just) that the pilots are recovering from the dodgy prawns and if they can remember their training will be able to start to pull out of the dive and gain some height. The broken engine means we can no longer get to our planned destination but we might yet avert a crash landing in the sea and may even enjoy some time if we can manage to land on the beach .

My sangria glass is still half full.

It's that fan mentality that GH is relying upon,the fans are so loyal towards the club,but does the club show the same locality to the fans,if it's not advertising next match,it's shirt sales, or shop sales or one other money making scheme,fully understand the club needs to grow in order to sustain,but in order to compete at every level until season ends(as shown last season) you need a squad of players capable of producing week in and out,as proved last year.

Its a good point, I can't believe the marketing department are focusing on marketing rather than getting the team back on track.

I went into the ticket office the other day. 4 or 5 people there selling tickets. I was outraged. "Grab those balls and get on the training paddock you lazy so and so's!" I screamed.

Its going to be a long season...

I don't know about some people, but for me it's not the losses that are putting me off. (I'm a season ticket holder, but I've not done an away game this year and can't see it anytime soon). It's the quality of performance or lack thereof. Where's the entertainment? Even a couple of years ago, (2014 I think) our attack was crap but our defence was awesome and a joy to watch. This year we have neither.

For me personally, I'm finding it hard to warm to the new players we've brought in. Maybe that will change if/when performances improve.

This suggests that all our previous success is down to our incumbent coach - I beg to differ.

If BMcD is solely responsible for an all conquering team then the loss of a couple of players should be irrelevant, his coaching skills will surely be able to counter losing a couple of players? He will obviously be able to coach the rest of his charges sufficiently to more than compensate for this small loss. Remember HE was the coach that brought is the Treble, HE was the coach that brought us back to back wins from 5th, HE is Leeds' most successful coach EVER.

Good old Bri will use his superior coaching knowledge to coach us out of this dilemma, he's just making us sweat for a while simply to amuse himself - why else would he have let us get to this point in the season with such a pish-poor record when he could have used his coachy super powers to ensure we didn't lose?

If Brian McDermott is such a good coach, why are we in this mess?

We are having a stinking, lousy, horrible season. But as someone who has supported the club for years and witnessed a succession of lousy seasons. I have seen it all before. My main concern at the moment is the ground refurbishment.
If the club gets that wrong ,we are stuck with that forevermore. Going to some of the new stadiums in the super league i am always disappointed. The majority of these grounds are soulless in comparison to previous stadiums.

You have seen it all before? and did the club persist with the same people when we had equally stinking, lousy, horrible seasons? or did they react and do something about it? would we have had the success we have had, had nothing been done about it?

Staying the same and hoping things will improve is not the correct move to make.

For the same reason that Warrington will probably never be champions under Tony Smith.

By and large they did react, unfortunately for the club most of the decisions proved to be disastrous. Fortunately Paul Caddick stepped in to save the day. If at the end of the season things are still dire ,then that's the time to take stock of the situation.

But you know as well as everyone else that recruitment does not take place in the close season, it takes place long before, with agreements in place. End of the season is totally the wrong time to take stock and decide from there, as you are as still likely to be regretting it the following season.

When we appointed Tony Smith, and the decision made, but for a couple of players getting in to trouble, Daryl Powell could have been going out as a champion, and irrespective of that it was still our best season in a while. Compare and contrast to this.

At the season end ,it may well be Brian Mac saying I have had enough, time for someone else to have a go.
Also it will be time to make a decision on various young players like sutcliffe. He will have had sufficient chances to prove himself, if he does not improve he will or should be moved on.

I wouldnt be judging young players after this year they've been on a hiding to nothing.

Quite true, like everbody else I am hoping we can get most, if not all of our senior players back in the next few weeks.
Then we can judge the current squad of players. It seems a long time since the season kicked off with a decent performance against the wire. Probably unlucky to lose that game, since then Lady Luck has not smiled upon us.

galloway not up to the task either

Thank god Falloon only on a one year contract or is he really better than he has been playing

Coming into a struggling team at hooker is a tough ask. From memory the great buderus did not rip up too many trees in first year, nor did Aiton. They both had advantage of coming into sides playing much better and with kylie on one side and the amazing freak Jp on the other. Also halves are all over the shop. He is not the biggest but has done some good round the ankles tackles near line to stop tries like buderus used to. Think fairer to judge him and Galloway at end of year if we ever start to play better.

A one trick pony..............The penny is beginning to drop

Wow what a lot of anger!



I never said or suggested that all our success was down to the coach. It is a combined effort. Usually the players rightly take the most credit for success and IMO it should also be the players who are responsible when they fail to produce the expected performances as they are supposed to be professionals. When the usually reliable actor fluffs his lines it is not the fault of the director.

To simply blame the coach for all our troubles is plain wrong. Coaches cannot prevent players dropping the ball over the line, or a high bomb, or a missed tackle not matter what they do on the training field. If half your squad is out injured you have not the luxury of being able to change the side. For most of this season we have struggle to get a full side out for training mid week let alone on match day. You are assuming the coach is making errors when you do not know at all, yet you are not calling for Watkins, Hardaker or Hall to be sacked despite awful performances that you can see for yourself week after week.

Many were critical of the coach when he didn't play Singleton and Garbutt for a couple of weeks yet they were both arguably our worst performing props in the previous game against Wigan (I think) and we did not know if there were off the field disciplinary issues or injury niggles either. When they both did return they again showed disappointing form which rather justified their previous lack of selection.

However despite the long injury list and the poor defense and the errors etc etc IMO had we had a creative game manager on the field and a decent kicker we would have won another 4 or 5 games and be just outside the top 4. (we have lost once by 2 points and by 4 points in 4 other games) We have had plenty of field position and possession despite our form to have won more matches even in the first game against Warrington and I think all would agree our 5th tackle options and decisions have been very poor.

Maybe BM is to fully or partly to blame for the failure to recruit a replacement for Sinfield's key role in the side (ie creative game manager/goal kicker. ) However I am not privy to management meetings and therefore without knowledge of that I cannot agree with the calls for his removal. To put all our faith in McGuire staying fit and in form all season was foolhardy IMO and to expect Sutcliffe to step in to such a crucial role in the event of Mags being unfit was equally foolish.

There are always two sides to a situation and amid all the one sided posting I am just putting another point of view.

Pretty much how I view it too.