I thought the tactics in the first half in particular were wrong. Too negative in attack, and too much one man rugby. The kicking game was decent, and the pack did OK, in fact the performance in general wasn't too bad, but I really couldn't understand why we persisted down the middle. We missed Aiton. and the decision to play Clarkson instead of Bailey was a bad one IMO, I really don't see what people see in him, he's the back row version of Kirke.
I think BM should have brought BJB on and moved Ward back into the pack in the second half. We hav a lot of graft in the back row, but apart from Ablett we have no attacking threat.

Our outside backs never had a run with the ball. Crap all round long look in the mirror and wake up call.
Of course titles not one here and now. But lessons need to be learned.

It wasn't crap all round. We actually played quite well, and got ourselves in a lot of good positions but weren't positive enough when we got the ball in the Saints half.

agreed.too predictable though which is criminal with the riches we have in the backs.

Spot on

I think because we so obviously went for a high completion rate, you tensed up and were drawn into the same.

Credit to saint for a tremendous tackling display,they slowed our play the ball down,sometimes illegally .
I think we got drawn into a mid field slog in which we did not quite dominate the saints pack. At various stages the whole team including the three quarter line were bunched in the middle of the field.
What concerned me was our lack of ideas near the saints line,plus we did not seem to be sending players into gaps to receive the pass .
Whilst its only two points lost, it's a big scalp for saints to win with a depleted team.

It was a very good game of rugby league and Saints deserve full credit for an outstanding performance. Their defence was superb and in Lomax they had the best FB by a country mile. He saved them tries and made the matching winning try.

I would have brought BJB on as we needed to add some pace and IMO we should have gone for the try rather than the 2 points. Easy to be wise after but I felt at the time we had the momentum and should have gone for 6 points as some of their players were looking very tired. Going for the 2 sent them a confidence booster signal IMO.

Kylie was good and put in a big effort. Clarkson looked average and I think gave possession away a couple of times and mistakes from Watkins, Ablett and JJB led to scores. Hardaker was marked out of the game particularly by Wellans and IMO was late arriving for the first Makinson try. So one that we should have won but on the night really Saints were worthy winners.

Burrow was our biggest attacking threat.

He was. But the same predictable tactic, and poor dummy half distribution. Aiton would have changed us for the better. But he was still our most dangerous threat.

Burrow posed no attacking threat until the last 10 minutes.

I do not think his DH distribution was poor, he was easly our most effective attacker and he put in some important tackles too. You do not know Aiton would have been better.

In your opinion but certainly not mine.

I do actually. Otherwise I wouldn't have said it. And his distribution was poor, a lot of forward passes too.

But he was our most dangerous threat, as I agreed with you.

There were more than a couple of times when he was running from dummy half where my heart was in my mouth as a saints fan, but more often than not, his pass selection was either poor, or not even used, and he left himself isolated quite a few times, and even Masoe was able to get to him a few times!

Thought Kylie was your best forward tonight, peacock was surprisingly quiet...

The whole approach of our game suited ST's they stayed disciplined dug in and saw off our 1 out down the middle tactics.
Roby ran the ruck for them and Lomax was very good with and without the ball whilst others may play it down again i thought our use/lack of subs was p!$$ poor even more so when Jjb went off also selecting Ward at LC is purely down to the Coach.
Blatantly during the first half twice we had Watkins and Briscoe on their own out wide and we went back inside to the left and finished up with either handing the ball over or a sh## kick.
Did anyone else see Delaney barfing his guts up at the start of the second half aswell he looked fecked.
JC you also forgot to add that Kirke conceded the penalty for a p!$$ poor shove for their 1st score.

From earlier posts, it seems there are going to be some very happy bookies in Leeds.

Not sure if it was evident on the TV but a big factor in Saints win today was the timing & length of the stoppages for video ref decisions. They happened just at the right time for us to have a rest & re-group were as I got the impression Leeds never got out of 2nd gear tonight, then got strung at the bell but still had plenty left in the tank were as Saints left it all on the field.

G1 is going to have a field day today. Kirke made four carries in that match. That's 4. Singleton did one more, playing 20 minutes less.

IMO our game plan was not a lot different to what has proved successful so far. The difference was the execution was poorer last night and the opposition was better. So far this season our defence and attack has been well structured. The forwards have controlled the middle and on the back of quick PTBs we have created the space for the backs to score the tries. The game plan gave us plenty of possession in their half and on another day we would have scored several more tries. But our finishing was not good enough and we took some wrong options - but that is sport.

Last night we started well enough down the middle but our PTB was too slow (due in part to lienient officiating of the ruck) Our two half backs never dominated and our kicking game was in the main also poor as was some decision making.

I too would have liked to have seen BJB come on as we badly needed someone to make a clean break but IMO opinion Ward is getting some unfair stick. He made 34 tackles (our 4th highest) and made no errors unlike Watkins who made 4 errors one of which led to their first try. Also Watkins made more carries and metres than usual but made no clean breaks so it is wrong of some to be saying he didn't get the ball.

You complain about our use of subs but that is not why we lost. We have to give credit to the Saints youngsters who were tremendous. They targeted Sinfield, Watkins and Hardaker and closed them down very effectively and they kicked deep and made our wingers have to turn back to collect and their kick chase was too good for our wingers and full back. In Lomax they had the MOM IMO as he both saved and made crucial tries. We lost JJB (who made an error for their first try in coming out too fast but IMO Sinfield was equally guilty for coming out too slow) and with him we lost some line speed and our kick chase was slower. Clarkson is just a plodder and Singleton was ineffective once again. In the end it was a brilliant last minute try that took the game from us and we should applaud the Saints rather than seek to blame.

We could have been more ambitious when we took the first kick at goal, and I didn't think the halves created enough opportunities for the outside backs. But Saints defended superbly and it was a terrific game to watch. I refuse to be too miserable about that at this point in the season. Should probably have found a way to win, but lots of credit to Saints. They fought, they scrapped, they hung in the game and they were dangerous and unpredictable in attack when it counted.

We have to look at some things to work on.

Here's what happened in my opinion.

Saints were better than we could reasonably expected them to be given the number of players they had missing. The defended competently but we didn't really ask them to do much more than that. Like all Saints teams they looked to play an attractive and expansive game.

We thought we could bully the younger Saints pack and failed to do that. We thought we could play very close to the line and failed to do that as there wasn't sufficient movement from dummy runners meaning we played one out rugby. Our Halves failed to create anything of note in their 40 (I was going to say 20 but it was actually further out than that). We have forgotten how to offload to support players.

Our coach made a blunder in putting Ward at 4, the fact that the kid made 34 tackles simply goes to show he really played in the second row meaning we were a back light. The continual lack of usage of a sub, especially when we have injuries during the game, is a big black mark against us. It does us no favours whatsoever.

There was no lack of heart, a trait you associate with a Leeds team under McDermott, but equally there was no "smarts" on show either, which falls into the same category.

The "last man standing" attitude of this group under the current coaching set up is laudable, but as the halves get slower (we must have the slowest halves in the competition now) we are failing to compensate by playing with more depth.

The start to the season in terms of results and defence have been good, but we are failing to play with much structure in attack and still rely on "miracle plays" from individuals.

I would agree with all batleyrhino put.

I don't think that was ever going to happen to be honest, we've not got the players capable of doing that. I've not seen a Leeds pack really take a game to decent opponents for quite a while. If the games against Wire, huddersfield and saints had been a boxing match I'd say our pack is behind on points after 3 rounds.

I agree with some of your points but disagree with your conclusions. This season we have played with more structure on attack and defence and the stats and our backs performance before last night clearly underline that.

Whilst I would have played BJB from the start and would certainly have brought him on to break the stalemate it is wrong to suggest our defeat was Wards fault. It is also wrong of others to keep suggestiong our game plan was wrong. We created more than enough field position and repeat sets to win the game. It was our mistakes (Watkins, Ablett, Kirke, JJB, Hardaker and Sinfield for wrong decisions) and poor finishing that cost us, not the game plan. Once the players take the field it is down to them. If they fail to perform blame the players.

I do not know how late in the day Aiton became ill but the game plan included him at 9 for all or part of the game. Burrow would have played all or at least part of the game in the halves and as you point out it was our half backs that looked pedestrian and failed to create the space that they had been doing in previous games. So although the Saints were without many first teamers we also had a major set back late in the day. This is not making excuses as our experience should have overcome this.

However the great thing about sport is that on the day (night) there can always be upsets. Last night the Saints, young and old, played out of their skins. Wellans totally dominated Hardaker out of our attack and Watkins and the wingers were well closed down too. After our forwards dominated early doors their pack hung in and just kept tackling. All this was helped by slowing down our PTB legally and also illegally IMO. In this area we did not match them and their first try came on the back of a schoolboy howler from Watkins, a lazy get up from Kirke (no worse than Saints were doing all the match) and a rush out from JJB. However it was their quick PTB, despite 4 of our players in the tackle, and Roby's rocket pass that made the try.

Finally it was a great try that won the game for them so this was one that got away but at this stage of the season it is no bad thing to have areas of improvement to work on.