Why are you kicking off about this, during the Tony Smith era you used to kick off about leeds being flat track bullies who lacked mettle in the big games now they are pretty much the opposite and you're kicking off.

No point in answering that question until the season is over.
Getting to a cup final each year is a level of success, and financially is good. We can't expect silverware every season but we can expect to be fighting for honours each season. We were up there in the late last for most of the season, then the opportunity to win a better piece of silverware came along which we took. We sacrificed the shield for the cup. Fair enough for me.

Until the payoffs are over, we can't judge the season as a whole.

I do look forward to next season with a better format which should result in teams taking the , league more seriously. But the current format has allowed teams especially leeds to take short cuts, and in the main is been quite successful. Next season is a newformat and a new approach will be needed.

This season is still not over, so let's see what the next 5 weeks have to offer

I'm assuming dearest William is including Saints, Wigan, Warrington & Huddersfield.
I get the numbers at2011-2014 SL regular rounds (including Magic Weekend)
Played - 34
Won - 8
Drawn - 2
Lost - 24

Challenge Cup games (including Final)
Played - 6
Won - 3
Lost - 3

SL Playoffs (including Final)
Played - 8
Won - 6
Lost - 2

It breaks down asv Wigan
SL roundsv St Helens
SL roundsv Warrington
SL roundsv Huddersfield
SL rounds:
Played 8 - Won 1 - Drawn 1 - Lost 6

Cup:
Played 1 - Lost 1

SL playoffs:
Played 1 - Won 1

Just had a look at the Wire board, apparently Ben Westwood is out for a month and will be a push to feature at all in the playoffs. Add to it Simon Grix suffered that horrible looking leg break that's another rival who has injury woes for the run-in.

League table for SL Era Play-Offs 1998-2013:

1. Wigan P41 W26 L15 = 52 = 63% (Avg Rst 24 - 19)

2. St Helens P40 W25 L15 = 50 = 63% (Avg Rst 23 - 19)

3. Leeds P41 W24 L17 = 48 = 59% (Avg Rst 22 - 20)

4. Bradford P23 W14 L9 = 28 = 61% (Avg Rst 28 - 1icon_cool.gif

5. Warrington P16 W6 L10 = 12 = 38% (Avg Rst 21 - 26)

6. Hull P17 W5 L12 = 10 = 29% (Avg Rst 18 - 27)

7. Les Catalans P10 W4 L6 = 8 = 40% (Avg Rst 22 - 24)

8. Huddersfield P12 W3 L9 = 6 = 25% (Avg Rst 20 - 27)

Grand Final Wins

Leeds = 6

Saints = 4
Wigan = 3
Warrington = 0
Hudds = 0
Castleford = 0

Coaches wins with current club

McDermott = 2

Wane = 1
Smith = 0
Brown = 0
Anderson = 0
Powell = 0

I don't quite get the doom and gloom about this. Before the seaosn started if you'd said we won the CC and did nothing in the league I'd have taken that. As it happens we also beat - quite convincingly - 2 of the big names in that win, plus Cas in the final. That suggests to me that when everyone's fit and focused we have a good chance against anyone in the play offs.

The main question mark is whether the players are up for the work required to achieve the double. They've talked about the CC for years, it clearly became the holy grail to some of the players, and all it will take is one or two to be satsfied with the CC for us not to be at the races when it counts.

Whilst I hope they can challenge for the Championship, I won't lose any sleep if they don't make it.

Next year will be a new format, and I think Leeds will be a very different proposition without the CC monkey on their back.

We have the advantage of being the only one of the 8 with nothing to play for next week, let them all go hell for leather while we sit abck and rest most of the players next week. Then the season really starts

I think you missed my point. You showed the losses as a positive, due to them all been fairly close. My point was the wins are also that way, we had the worst attack of the top seven teams. If our attack was better, like the other top seven teams, those losses probably wouldn't have been losses.

People have centred far too much on the cup as the reason for the poor league form, that was why I said scrapping barrel of excuses. I don't accept it was the reason, which is what I have kept repeating in this thread. Those stats on points scored, and your close losses list highlights that.

Like said earlier, one off matches we can win, like the play offs, but managing a 27 round league campaign is something we have struggled with over last few years. And no one is convincing me it's intentional.

I think the real problem is that the players have been so successful, that they just struggle to get themselves 'up' for the fairly meaningless regular season games. They know they'll be in the 8, and with their history and big game experience, they know they can win it from anywhere.

I think the fact that we turn in our worst performances against teams like London, Wakefield, Bradford and Salford says it all. We play a lot worse in those matches than against any of the big boys, and it's because that sort of match seems 'beneath' the level of game that our players get up for.

The big problem with that is that fans are paying the same amount to watch a half d performance against a Wakey, London etc as they are to see the bigger games.

How many GF's have Saints lost - let's not forget GF is the pinnacle of RL in the Northern Hemisphere - has that changed the way they approach the game?

Everyone on here keeps saying Leeds can beat anyone on any given day - you have to believe that now!! McDermott's team selection for Wakefield, Bradford and London were wrong simple and the is my point about amateur hour, going in to games without a regular centre is bonkers. I get all the points about losing the CC but a club the size of Leeds should have been able to mange their resources sufficiently well enough to beat the two relegated sides.

The question still remains how have a club like Castleford with significantly less resources available managed to reach the CC final and finish where they have in the league - it shows it is possible.

These guys are elite players who play rugby for a living - part of that is being able to maintain performance levels regardless of mental and physical fatigue. You cannot compare that to you and I knocking a white ball round a golf course. Why are the pro golfers so good - natural ability but a huge amount of practise - there will not be a situation on the course that they haven't practised hundreds/thousands of times, same goes for rugby players.