He's a cracking signing in my opinion and puts ours to shame!

We haven't signed anyone yet for 2012!

With the calibre of Wellar, Delaney and Cross that's a good thing.

Any company which loses sight of their customers aspirations of them will soon have no customers!!

Know what you are saying but i think the salary cap may have something to do with the quality of signings available to GH..

It'll be very interesting to see what he does if this season ends up being a poor one. IIRC the last time i can remember GH having a clear out was in the days of Hay, Sheridan etc....

They did - but we didn't win owt!!

Delaney turned out to be exactly what was on the tin he never claimed to be nor was ever described as a centre either in the crative or in the "Senior" mould that some are comparing/expecting his signing to be.
As for Cross and Hauraki i never had you down to write players off 9 games in for their new club especially when both have missed games and neither have had the chance to play in a fully fit squad.
Again neither signing were described as "world class" but yet this is again the expectency of some at least give them chance to settle and a full season before writing them off as duds and the usual digs at GH for doing things cheaply.

Cross has played in 7 of 9, Hauraki 8 of 9. If Leeds had a fully fit squad available it's arguable whether either would earn a place in the the 17.

Yeah good point fella.. it's very early days.. remember how poor Donald was in his first season.. and he turned out to be imo one of the best overseas signings we've made for a few years

I also remember a heck of a lot of people saying Senior was cack when we first signed him and we should get rid and look how he has turned out.. a rhinos legend

Absolutely i don't disagree mate but far too early to be writing them off imo afterall i'm sure with a fully fit squad they'd contribute once settled in just like Kirke ,Poching and others like Dunners did!

Delaney, as spotted by me could be an effective second rower. He was signed as a centre and hasn't excelled there. I'd rather see a Clarkson, or Golden (at Quins) do the same job. For what Delaney offers, surely we didn't need to drag him half way round the world? I think we had/have the players already within our set-up.

As for Cross and Wellar, I'm not writing them off their ability and contributions pre-Rhino employment is the tale of the tape. Cross 100 pro games rooky in his 30's who is brain dead, is a flawed player. A, literally, technically awful player. And Wellar, who I have only seen for Welsh (not in the NRL really) is flawed also, with his strong weaknesses in defence. Also for value for money, we squeezed Giants out of the deal to capture him so read into that what you will. The issues these players have may be masked with better players around them, but I can't see either of them improving lock stock and barrell to an effective level. Their flaws are well ironed in. Again why bring them over? For their modest price tag it probably doesn't equate too well compared to an English C-rate player.

No agendas, just calling it as I see it.

As for a fully fit team, Cross or Wellar would struggle to make the 19 squad, let alone the 17. The same as Pitts. Get my point?

Huraki's tackling is a disgrace for a pro-player that will not improve anytime soon - he is a liability in the line, going forward he has more potential in attack but is no Ali in his prime.

Cross was a very average NRL player that provides no more than the likes of Ambler.

I am all for overseas players but they have to be top notch - Leeds have one that fits that bill - Buderus. The rest offer a little/no more than than the youngsters we have.

I would argue that when we signed Webb and Ali, they also fit the bill. Webb possibly still does

Also, I think Hauraki's game fits superbly into the "you score 48 points we'll score 52" philosophy that the club is currently playing by

They are here to add depth to the squad and competition for places and the powers that be decided they would "add something".
Hauraki isn't the only one who's struggled at times with defence and look at the improvement Burgess has made surely any player can improve in a better enviroment/squad.
As for Delaney he did the centre job most expected re-read my 1st post he was never signed in the Senior mould or as a world-beater and we obviously did'nt have the depth to promote from within as the clubs record of blooding youngsters stands against anyones in this league.
As for improvement all players are capable of improvement look at the early threads re-Hall and the way signings like Poching and Furner were dismissed as past it and never will be's.
Your views are clear and fair enough but still no reason to dismiss new signings 9 games into a season when they've done no worse than established 1st teamers.

Yup. Spot on.

9 games represents 1/3rd of the season!!

9 games is just under a third of a season for a team going out in the 4th round of the Challenge Cup and missing out on a play-off spot.

They are here at the expense of Ambler and Amor.

Where's the benefit?

Yes it does and when during that time have we had full squad available?
Plus how long should it take for new signings to settle in?
On the Hauraki point there's no way you can say that a player who's 25 can't improve in a better enviroment/squad and i also never labelled him in Alis calibre.
The squad have struggled big time at stages and lack confidence and many 1st choice quality players so again i think it's too early to dismiss Cross and Hauraki as duds nor were they ever described/marketed as "Marquee" signings.

The coaches decided that during pre-season that both would be better served by going out on loan and getting [uregular[/u SL games and if you check the squad lists Ambler has missed games for Quinns whether that's due to form or injury i don't know.
Brian Mc has already shown by starting Watkins and Bjb at the expense of Delaney and Smith he'll pick younger players when he thinks it's warranted.
Again too early to write new players off imo and having Amor/Ambler starting/playing more regular SL eleshwere is a good long term strategy rather than having 1 game for Leeds then 3/4 for the u20's imo.

This season Cross has made 21 tackles per game (2nd best prop) and has made the most marker tackles per game of the props. On current form it would be Kylie that would not make the squad.

Stats are not the be all and end all. and can be very misleading and used to fit what people want to see ( not accusing you by the way, just stating they can be made to fit)

I have yet to see Cross tackle someone with the same impact as a Kylie tackle. (Legally!!)

Not saying we should write them off just yet, but they hardly set the world on fire.

Someone mentioned that they are hear to add depth. With the loss of Eastwood, I would have exspected at least one big, signing not just average Joe's

You were not the only one to call for Delaney to be moved into the pack.

Hauraki has been a big disappointment so far but I guess he has been trying too hard to make an impact. Last season he averaged 25 tackles per game with offloads and tackle busts but also with 2.85 missed tackles per game. But he may yet prove to be an asset.

Likewise Cross. I think your assessment of him is a little harsh. He has come as a stop gap signing with experience and a good workrate and that is what we are getting. I suspect he is not fully match fit due to his low game time but if you look at his stats for his time on the field he is the most active of our props so far. He is averaging 21 tackles per game with the most marker tackles of our props and against Hull KR when many of our forwards were absent on defence he put in 31 tackles in 38 minutes.

As secretary of the Ryan Bailey fan club you have to be very carefull who you call brain dead!

Even if using stats alone to make that call (and no-one would do that surely) it remains arguable as to which of/(if indeed any of) Leuluai, Cross, Bailey, Kirke and Burgess would miss out on selection.

Of course stats don't tell the whole story but they are what the coaches use and consider of great importance. They do show the basic facts and can often contradict our intial opinions regarding players as human prejudice and emotion often colour our judgement. That is why some don't like stats.

So while some on here are rubbishing Cross his stats tell a different story. The following are not misleading:

games played 2011: Cross 7 Kylie 5
tackles per game: Cross 21 Kylie 14.6
marker tackles per game Cross 3.85 Kylie 2

I am not suggesting the Cross is a top class prop. But he looks to me exactly what we signed -a stop gap experienced rough, tough, workhorse. I don't think he has been fully match fit hence his low game time. However his 31 tackles in 38 minutes last week was impressive to me and when defensive is our big problem I would suggest we look at those who are not putting the work before we right this guy off.