The transition was always going to be bigger and take longer than some predicted imo throw in the injuries and having to over rely on Sutcliffe after so long out and very little pre-season behind him it's no surprise we've lost 2 from 2.
However even if you expect and allow for some teething problems and disjointed performances that defence today was and should be unacceptable for any 13 out on the pitch it was p!$h.
No point targetting individuals especially the younger lads ,collectively however that was diabolical and for some of the tries we conceded they looked like they were trying to out do each other for most pathetic tackle attempt.
I expect us to regroup and be 1000% better next week but as it stands a 20pt loss will come across as an improvement its a big test for the players and Coaches now i hope MC has ripped em a new arris every now and again an old fashioned ear bashing is needed and this is one of thgose occasions imo,

Some of the individual tackles wern't good enough neither was the effort to shut down breaks when made, the major problem though was giving Widnes a ridiculous amount of field position

In a weird way the hammering might do us a favour in the long run. Poor vs Wakey on Boxing Day, not great vs Bradford but can be labelled as just friendlies. Don't take our chances vs Wire but can say it was only 2 points and the missed kicks and think we aren't that far off. Had we lost by a score or two vs Widnes then again you could say not far off just got to sort some stuff out.......however a beating like that should HOPEFULLY make them realise that they need to get their act together because they haven't looked or sounded on it from the moment they came back from the off season IMO.

The team usually prefers it and plays better when they start getting written off so hopefully that hammering was the performance that brings them back down to earth with a bang after probably basking in the glory of 2015 too long.

It's a fair point we regrouped after that pasting in France last year & we do carry the underdog tag better than any team in SL imo.

Yeah, but we are missing a very vital ingredient. This team has proven nothing yet to say it could do what we have previously. I have seen some very good Widnes sides over time, and some pretty poor Leeds ones to be fair. Yet that was Widnes biggest ever win against Leeds, and that should take some reflecting on players and fans alike.

It is bad enough players playing unacceptable, but self infliction makes it worse. The club have completely dropped the ball in believing they had planned correctly in the halfs, and more to the point leadership. I won't repeat my thoughts on the McGuire position, but what sort of an idiot thought it right when he is out, to place the captaincy on a guy who has made his whole career on individualism and not team play, I do not know. That wasn't the reason we lost, but it was definitely significant in the total collapse.

Had Sinfield and JP played yesterday, we could still have been beaten in a similar manner. Its not like we havn't seen this kind of performance several times before leading into a big game or big period of the season.

I'm going to wait till after the weekend till i start judging this years teams chances, or even writing off the season, or players in the squad already as some seem to be doing. I liked what i saw in the first hit out against a very good Wire team.We should have won that game really and only have ourselves to blame that we didn't, that is the levels we can achieve when focused.I always thought Widnes away would be tough right before the WCC, they have always been a threat to anyone on that plastic ground and so early in the season with optimism very high it was a real banana skin game as it proved.

We would not have won the Treble if Sutty had not got injured last year that is a fact . Now is the time for Mac to prove he is a great coach , at the moment all that is happening is in retirement Sinfield is becoming an even better player than some thought he was .

That's absolute rubbish mate. We may well and probably would have done seen the defeat still. But we would never have seen the collapse and no fight. This is a team that were tipped for bottom by the majority of fans and experts alike. They put 10 tries, yes 10 tries past us, and we could have played for another hour and still struggled to score more than another try. We haven't seen that sort of result any time over last 13 years, not even when Widnes had their heyday. This was not a Wigan or Saints on top form.

Quote ="Gotcha"That's absolute rubbish mate. We may well and probably would have done seen the defeat still. But we would never have seen the collapse and no fight. This is a team that were tipped for bottom by the majority of fans and experts alike. They put 10 tries, yes 10 tries past us, and we could have played for another hour and still struggled to score more than another try. We haven't seen that sort of result any time over last 13 years, not even when Widnes had their heyday. This was not a Wigan or Saints on top form.'" www.skysports.com/rugby-league/c ... eeds/44130 Full team including Sinfield and JP. How quickly some forget

Quote ="Gotcha"That's absolute rubbish mate. We may well and probably would have done seen the defeat still. But we would never have seen the collapse and no fight. This is a team that were tipped for bottom by the majority of fans and experts alike. They put 10 tries, yes 10 tries past us, and we could have played for another hour and still struggled to score more than another try. We haven't seen that sort of result any time over last 13 years, not even when Widnes had their heyday. This was not a Wigan or Saints on top form.'" www.skysports.com/rugby-league/c ... eeds/44130 Full team including Sinfield and JP. How quickly some forget

Not much credit given to us here and I can tell you've ben spoilt recently as there were times you got on the players backs yesterday instead of supporting them - particularly after Mellor's try.

That's as good as I've seen Widnes play in a long time and I think we'd have beaten anybody today.

I think it is you that might need a little knock to the memory bank. Catalans were flying and had just hammered Wigan by the same sort of scoreline, yet we were beat by 30, and actually had chances to have been right in it at half time.

Compare and contrast to yesterday, a team tipped for bottom, struggled to beat last week the next team tipped for bottom, and put 10 tries, yes 10 tries on us, with a margin of victory nearly 50 points.

That is a big difference.

It's nothing against Widnes mate, but i'm sure you will agree when a big side is beaten so heavily by one of the lesser sides in the league it is going to provoke these kinds of reactions. FWIW, i myself as stated in previous posts expected it to be a tough game, you are a decent side and very good at home. You have probably done a number on all the top sides there over the last few seasons.

Again, well done on the win.

To date there's no difference. We were poor at Widnes last season, however yesterday we were utterly abysmal. An abject toothless display. 0 from 4 in the points column just like last season. Am I confident that this team can turn it round? Ask me after the Easter fixtures.

Im not gonna keep arguing with you, i think i have made my point fairly enough.

Maybe you also need to read the post from the Widnes fan above and show a little bit of humility.

Fair play Biff, know what you mean fans will be far from happy with how you played yesterday but all will be forgotten if you win on Sunday.

For what it's worth - Widnes were already 22-0 up when the first injury occurred, so the ship had already sailed by then. Also - didn't think much of Ferres from a performance or leadership front yesterday - surprised he didn't roll his sleeves up and get stuck in.

Catalans away last season in the super 8 wasn't a million miles away from the performance yesterday - and I think both Sinfield and Peacock played in that game!!

I'm sure you will come up with a reason why that wasn't as bad as yesterday - but the collapse and lack of leadership in that game was there for all to see.

Oh they were plenty of shockers when Singield and Peacock were in the team over the years. Losses to London, Wakey and Bradford, may not have been as many tries against but equally as poor and lacking in fight. Also whilst better opposition we put up pitiful showings on other occasions. 48 points past us from Hudds on the last day of 2012 season even though they played with 12 men for 65 mins yet we were the ones who looked like we had a man less. The 50 points at home against Wigan that year and the red hair debacle at Saints also Spring to mind. Like I said, yes better teams but can't exactly argue that the fight was there even with Sinfield and Peacock in the team on those days.

Sinfield is a colossal loss. We've lived without JP and Mags when they both needed knee reconstructs end of 2010 season and we were poor, but we've never really had to cope without Kev. It's hard to overestimate what he contributed. We've had batterings with him in the side as well, but to take him out, JP and Danny all at once is really tough to deal with.
Patience is required. I reckon focus on league points will come after the WCC, and we will look to stay in touch with the top 4 until the super 8. Hopefully by then we'll have settled and the likes of Sutty, Lilley, Falloon, etc will be clicking.
Best thing for us might be for a couple of teams to run away at the top, looking like Wigan and Warrington could do that. If they take all the points off Saints, Hudds, Catalans etc then we'll have a better chance of being in with a shout of 3/4th.
Shipping 10 tries is not great, leaders need to emerge over the next 3-4 months.

I was out for most of last night, so haven't read full reports, are these 3 injurys all leg injurys?

I already gave reasons why not the same. Only somebody very naive would compare yesterday, to a game away at Catakans, flying at the time, and only before hammered Wigan by a similar scoreline. Yesterday was much worse, playing the team tipped for bottom and only week before struggled against Wakey. All losses are not equal.

Had people gone yesterday they would have seen the situation behind the posts when the trys were conceded. As soon as the second one went in we all knew there was no stopping it. Nobody was taking controll of getting the players minds in order, and standing up to give the call.

You've made a fool of yourself with your first comment, the support we gave the team yesterday was outstanding. Most of our fans stayed till the end and even applauded our team off, which they didn't really deserve. Have a look at the interview with Rob Burrow about our support on the Rhino's website, that will tell you all you need to know about how humbled they were by our backing. Your second comment has more credibility, Widnes were fantastic and probably would have beaten anybody. I did comment how well your lot played btw in my earlier post. Enjoy your success and lose the inferiority complex.

Oh christ he's off again. Didn't take long did it.



Last year after a few defeats it was "this team has no recent history of turning things around" and now with 2 players retired it's "this team has proven nothing yet.... blah blah"

Last year you wrote the team off for being "too old with poor recruitment", this year we're "too inexperienced with poor recruitment".

Maybe you'll get it right this year, maybe not. I highly doubt it but I'll wait and see. I'm not one for writing a team off after ONE bad performance. Especially a poor game the week before what's in effect, a major final (for us).

I wasn't at the game and the 3rd Widnes try had a great deal of fortune about it.....but I commented elsewhere the 1st try of the second half was particuarly appalling. Most of the team ambling back with their backs to the threat after a given penalty..no urgency. Burrow just threw up his arms in despair. We all knew we would miss Sinfield's captaincy, but as others have said it still didn't stop some previous routs when he was in the team. Maybe those opposing teams were 'flying high' at the time, but it was still difficult to excuse those (at least) similar capitulations. The good thing was the team always bounced right back very quickly...got to hope for the same again and that this was just too many eyes on the bigger prize next week. I'm sure the team will be more revved up, but with the injuries mounting you have to be concerned.
I would still persevere with Sutcliffe and Lilley at halfback ....swapping and changing cannot be better. Who else could play there anyway? Not Burrow for god's sake. I continue to believe Golding has the confidence and abilities to make a success of SO alongside Lilley, but of course he is now also injured.
We really need the return of Faloon and a better leader by example in the pack - JJB? Hope these two in particular make it back for next week.

I think you need to get a grip and look at posts correctly, instead of thinking the big I am. There is plenty of threads writing the team off, I don't post on them, I don't do it because what will be will be. What I comment on is what I have just watched, you should try it sometime, you can get to a game and post on here. When there is a thread on that match, I will comment on it, and stick to that.

My comments don't change on one match, I have been consistent throughout last season, and the close season on having a replacement for Sinfield. Until something shows up that shows a replacement, then referring to that will always happen.

My comments on this particular match, were that although the defeat may well have happened, the collapse against such a side would not, with Sinfield in there.

It is far too soon to make long term judgements.

My observations are made a long way from the Halton Stadium but it would appear to me that we got caught on the wrong side of momentum created by a lively and fast running Widnes side who deserve great credit. That together with the odd unfortunate bounce of the ball and the effects of 3 more injuries meant we never really got into the game.

It is worth noting that 7 of their 10 tries (5 from their wingers) came from their backs while our backs produced 11 out of 18 team errors (Hall 6 and Briscoe 2) and 15 out of 36 missed tackles. Their half backs comfortably out performed our two youngsters in all aspects of the game which perhaps is to be expected for now but this never the less had an important bearing on the result.

Our forwards did put in some hard work with Ferres once again topping the tackle count with 47 (and top offloader with 5) followed by Delaney 43, Cuthbo & Singo both 37, Galloway 31 and Garbutt 29.

They only made 12 more carries than we did and our inability to create more scores is a worry as we are clearly lacking sharpness in attack which together with the bad injury news was why Mac looked rather dejected after the game.