Quote: Juan Cornetto "The reason this roundabout never ends is because you can never concede a point that is lost. It was you that incorrectly challenged my comment that the Typhoon was making its much delayed debut in a combat situation which it is. '"
Why was it a much delayed debut? As an air superiority fighter where are the enemy airforces it has avoided?
Typhoon didn't need a conflict to prove itself. It was in service performing the roles it had been tasked to do. And doing so despite your concerns which are many and varied. Doesn't appear to have prevented their relocating to Southern Italy and flying CAP missions within hours of arriving.
Quote: Juan Cornetto "You then tried to expand the definition of “combat” and confused it with the non combat ops. '"
I'd rather the Typhoon was tasked to patrol and defend UK airspace both here and over the Falklands than be called upon to take sides in a civil war in North Africa.
Quote: Juan Cornetto "How many combat missions did the Typhoon fly in Afghanistan & Iraq?'"
None. How many did you expect it to fly?
Quote: Juan Cornetto "The Tornado will have to be retained not just in a recce role but until we can replace it with an aircraft that is as effective for ground attack.'"
Yes, I expect so. There again I expected Harrier (and a carrier) could come in useful and a replacement for our only submarine hunter/killer, maritime patrol, long distance search and rescue aircraft would be entering service around the time the aircraft it replaces was going out of service.
Quote: Juan Cornetto "You are being slippery again. You stated that the Typhoon was “establishing air superioriy” This is not correct. The maritime and coalition aircraft including the Tornado fully established the air superiority by ground attack and degraded the Gadaffi regimes abilty to get its planes in the air. Once this had been achieved the Typhoon was introduced with a role with patrols to maintain the air superiority. Quite different roles.'"
Where's the argument. I've agreed suppression of ground forces is part of establishing the no fly zone.
Quote: Juan Cornetto "Well we certainly have paid our money - but we have had no choice. At 4.1Bn pounds the Nimrod MRA4 has the distiction of being the most expensive aircraft ever built and there was only one that was airworthy. By comparison the Space shuttle would cost 1.3 Bn if built today!. Even the staggeringly expensive B-2 Stealth bomber only cost 1.3Bn apiece. You could buy a fleet of Space Shuttles or steath bombers for the price we paid to have a converted 1950's vintage airliner.'"
Links to those costs would be a useful addition.
Even if technically correct (based on one complete aircraft) I think the present government canning the project at the 11th hour of production and bringing in the scrapman to destroy the airframes nearing completion has played a major role in the unwanted statistic. The MR4A expected price per unit (at cancellation announcement) of £400m, while ridiculously expensive, is still nowhere near the unit cost of a B2.
Quote: Juan Cornetto "Remember all the MRA2s are refurbished and re equipped Nimrod MR2s which had already been purchased by the RAF long ago before at infalted prices. Had the project continued we would have received just 9 refurbished Nimrods which would have mean each costing half a billion pounds plus what was paid for it in the first place. One should note that this would have represented a more than quadrupling of the original fixed price agreed per plane in the 1990s. These planes were also no longer state of the art and were the last 9 De Havilland Comet airframes designed in the 1940’s.'"
So if the whole Nimrod MRA4 was folly from the outset is now the time to remind our viewers who were the Government in charge who took the original decision and who was the defence secretary responsible. I'll let you make the announcement.
And which government has just given a repreive to the two Nimrod R1's they scheduled for the dustbin next Thursday.
As for delays, price overruns etc. that's what happens to just about if not every major defence procurement contract and usually caused by the politicians/MOD while the defence company take the flak and British workers in this case lose their jobs. I doubt anything much will change anytime soon either. It's easy to carp from the sidelines but they'll find it a whole lot tougher to change anything now they think they're running the show. Events dear boy, events.
Quote: Juan Cornetto "The report, by the Defence Equipment and Support Inspectors, was not just in the Sunday Times but also was reported in the House of Commons. Your sole rebuttal is to quote an annonomous internet posting and accept this as “factual responses” over a report by the Inspectors.
So now you believe an annonomous posters to justify your political prejudices. No wonder we disagree on so many things.'"
Good. If it was reported in the House Of Commons I imagine there will be a link to said report. I'll look forward to reading it if and when you produce it. In the meantime the rebuttal I copied appeared to be informed and heartfelt. I've no idea of it's providence but offer it for consideration. As I said you pay your money .....
Quote: Juan Cornetto "And what exactly is a measured way? '"
Measured as in not an unprecedented gamble. When Labour left office the recovery was fragile but at least it was happening. Unemployment had been held down below expectations and economic growth was becoming established.
Since the election and the emergency budget the rate of growth has declined in each quarter (indeed back into negative growth on the last quarter), unemployment is rising (when it should be falling at this point in the recovery and the real cuts haven't even started yet) and the OBR is having to adjust it's growth forecasts and each time they do it goes down.
While the country, a large number of it's citizens and the public services many of those same citizens rely on will be poorer as a result of the decisions being taken, the fundamental question remains, will the pain be worth it in the end, will growth return or is the cure worse than the condition.
One thing's for sure, without some serious growth returns to the economy nothing will add up. With inflation stubbornly above target the pressure will increase on the BOE to start raising interest rates a little and that will do nothing for the recovery, which leaves you wondering what's in store for plan B.
Quote: Juan Cornetto "The leader of the opposition Mr “DeadEd” Milliband and Mr “Record Debt” Balls have so far been unable to say exactly what cuts they would make yet they oppose every cut that has been proposed. But this seems to satisfy the Labour supporters who seem blissfully unaware of the huge mess the country was left in.'"
Well done, not childish at all. Who is blissfully unaware? Labour have broadly stated both before the election (as much as the other parties did) and since what they would be doing if they were in office now (it's hardly their fault if some people aren't listening) but here's the thing, they're not in government, they're in opposition which probably explains why people are taking no notice.
Despite now being in opposition if the coalition ever come up with a good idea I'm fairly sure Labour would back it.
Quote: Juan Cornetto "I also expect a very difficult next two years for everyone but at least we now have a Government that is taking responsible action. '"
Everyone? Hardly everyone. Oh I forgot we're all in this together ....... yeah right.
If their actions ultimately end up responsible for a lot of pain and little gain I trust you'll hold them just as responsible as you do the last government despite their spending programmes being backed penny for penny by Osbourne until 2008 and the banker's crashing the world economy. And here again while the British government (or any other government for that matter) failed to properly regulate the city who was it calling for less regulation.
Quote: Juan Cornetto "You seem to have been quite happy for the last Labour government to have spent record levels - far more than the country could afford, to have wasted billions of public money with a lack of management like the Nimrod debacle yet squeal when the time comes to pay off the debt.'"
Have you ever borrowed to invest?
Quote: Juan Cornetto "I note you have avoided answering the two questions I posed.
(above)
You should check out your sources. The RAF have been out every day and night. The Tornados continue the difficult task of taking out specific targets. Yesterday with Brimstone missiles.'"
My source was a Kirsty Wark interview with Sir Mike Jackson during Thursday's newsnight on the BBC.
Sorry but I weren't that informed on the situation in Libya to make the call. I heard a lot of what sounded like propoganda on both sides but not much in the way of evidence to back it up. There would be talk of an airstrike and then pan up to show a transport aircraft overflying at 10,000 feet, so it's impossible for me to say. At one point the only thing that was missing from news reports was the mention of a 45 minute capability.
