I think we should have won this game. Widnes looked the stronger in the first half on the back of a good kicking game. We doggedly held them out apart from a testing kick. Gradually got on top and had Widnes rocking and then attempted a drop goal in a swamp that would only have got us level. The better option imho would be put a decent grubber in and at least they would have started that set near the line. Instead 7 tackles from the twenty and the game was done!
As i have previously reported a Batley fan said we would not see Jouffret until the sun came out.

For me good coaches are the difference in tight games because they make adjustments , but to sit someone on the bench and not use is a big question mark . Communication and decision making abilities are key..just nudge the players to make the correct decisions. 2 points lost big time .

It’s interesting to see Simon Grix getting criticised for is substitutions or lack of substitutions being inept and the reason why we lost when one point separated the two sides especially when Simon finnigan only used two subs himself for the same tactical reason Grix mentioned in his interview https://youtu.be/3veudqz1zQY We lost because 1 there kicking game was executed better 2 our discipline was poorer 3 individual errors compounding point 2 .

It’s interesting to see Simon Grix getting criticised for is substitutions or lack of substitutions being inept and the reason why we lost when one point separated the two sides especially when Simon finnigan only used two subs himself for the same tactical reason Grix mentioned in his interview https://youtu.be/3veudqz1zQY We lost because 1 there kicking game was executed better 2 our discipline was poorer 3 individual errors compounding point 2 .

Slightly different subject matter but I would be doing my best to sign someone like Tyler Dupree for next year, young local lad and is exactly the kind of prop we need , believe he’s on a one year deal at Widnes .

From what i have been told we had the chance to sign tyler but simon wasn't interested he is another who is not simons type of forward. And that as been a problem with simon last year and this he does not want forwards who may offer impact and go forward he prefers smaller fitter players with higher work rates who tick the boxes that he is looking for. The problem is those type of players lack punch and we are desperately missing that and until simon addresses this we will always have this problem at the start of the season and also when we play the best sides. Packs need to have balance and ours is too one dimensional. As for the game other then the opening 20 minutes of the second half i thought widnes were the better side and played the conditions far better then we did. Tyler was a handful and the rest of there pack did well which laid the platform for smith and craven too completely dominate the kicking game our halfbacks kicked very poorly in comparison. If jouffret was dropped on the back of the batley game then aston should be no where near the side next week not that keyes kicked much better. If i where simon i would be on the phone to huddersfield for as many players as possible for next week and if he still cant get a response from the players then he is the wrong man for the job. The problem with that is the board have just given him a new 3 year contract which i questioned at the time as a big risk. All that being said i will still be going to workington next sunday some of us fans must be mad.

If this is the case regarding Tyler then I have to agree on it being a missed opportunity, having a blend of for example a Titus gwaze and Dupree type forward would be more beneficial.

I'm glad i've read someone saying they understand why LW isn't in the team. It was blindingly obvious that it wasn't a day for him. You need wingers who will make metres on a boggy pitch, LW isn't built for that.

I disagree when Simon said in his post match interview that he didn't bring Jouffret on because Brandon was ok out there and didn't need to come off. Brandon was blowing for the last 20 minutes and made some poor judgements out of dummy half causing our halves to play some silly passes as Widnes' defence were already in their faces.

I think all in all it came down to poor kicking, ill discipline and individual errors (Many have already said this). These games happen unfortunately but we have to turn up at Workington next week.

Having a mobile pack is all well and good if the conditions are right but you can’t hang around waiting for warmer weather and drier pitches.

In winter conditions you either get field position by yardage from the pack or by kicking well and we aren’t doing either well enough.

Like Terry posted you need a balance between size and mobility and we haven’t got the size.
Workington this weekend and once again the above will be put to the test, if we fail again then SG has to do something about it.

I don't feel the forwards were the problem. We got outclassed in the halfbacks. Their kicking game was superior.
Calcott , fairbank , gwaze and Murray held their own.
We had a big lump in K Hirst. He was sluggish and didn't play enough minutes.
By the way thought widnes were lucky not to have had Lawton sent off.

Keegan was a world beater when at Fax according to some on here.

The pack has held it’s own to a degree but the point is it’s supposed to get on top of the opposition.
To do that you add to what you already have, in our case, fitness, big minutes, mobility with some size and punch.
And if we’re going to choose a “big lump” why not a Mitch Cahalane or a Gadwin Springer and then say we wouldn’t be a better, stronger side right now with them in the side.

INOUT

The whole the pack isn't big enough is misleading. No pack is ever dominant all of the time and games have momentum shifts that directly effects yardage. I think some people still live in the era of that Bulls monster back of Fielden, Anderson, Vagan etc. The forwards game has evolved since then and forwards can make yardage for more than just size. Eliott Morris is a classic example of just quick feet at the line which gets him easy meters. The pack isn't small. They are all 6 feet. I mean the best prop in the world is James Fisher-Harris @ Penrith is only 6'1. John Bateman was the best second-rower in the world at Canberra and he is hardly a monster. Sunday was a 50/50. You can pick hairs but if our pack was so dwarfed, Widnes would have won more comfortably.

Where did anyone say the whole pack wasn’t big enough, small or was so dwarfed?
Those words were never said or implied.
What was said was add to what you have some size or punch.
Someone who can break the line and get some space to play against a retreating defence which by the way we haven’t done, it’s mainly been tit for tat in the middle of the park.
You can pick hairs but if we did have that bit extra size or punch as explained above Widnes wouldn’t have won by any score.

You certainly are implying about size but don't we all


I do get your point about that line-busting forward but they are few and far between in our division at least. Springer was that type of player but that came to nothing. I do miss that Cahlhane type of prop as he had everything but hopefully, when Matty Gee is fit, I think he can give us some dimension.

So the reality is we are three matches in and we are all reevaluating potential league positions . Fev look very good and leigh look to be emerging as the next contenders . For me it looks like fax for mid table but get better on drier pitches as the team gels . Workington will probably be a 60s mudbath, I fear by the end of this weeks rain. I seem to remember going to a cup match workington v fax years ago early 90s? Standing in the bottom corner not able to tell the shirt colours wondering why on earth I had driven 3hrs to watch that mud feast .
.

Sorry but you are still misquoting people and your entire first post was built on misquotes and “straw man” arguments.
To be clear.
I did not imply that the whole of the pack were either too small, not big enough or were dwarfed as you posted.
I did not imply anything about size/punch, it was a clear statement and I will repeat it.
Our current pack would benefit by having the likes of Gadwin in there based on what is evident now on the field.
We hardly break the line and have little second phase or field position from that section of the team in winter conditions, fact.
How anyone can make a connection to yesteryear and Bradford and state that is where some people are living is total garbage, can you read peoples minds?
Do you honestly think we are at a game in 2022 and giving even a nanoseconds thought to Vagana, Feilden or anything to do with Bradford? And you say others are misleading


SG himself on the one hand acknowledges the threat of size/punch on his assessment of the opposition in his prematch interviews when he says they are a big bunch of lads or have a big pack but for some reason doesn’t add that threat to the side!!
And you have to be at least looking before your going to find that type of player.


Unfortunately the most likely source will be on DR from Huddersfield.
A simple point of example from our own team is Ed Barber.
Ed as a lot of qualities but one of the primary reasons he has stand out games when he plays in the centres is that extra bit of size that punches through the line, often with an offload, second phase, field position, points etc etc.

Relax pal, you have an opinion and as do I. No need to dissect the argument. It's early days and little can we learn.

Just a quick statistical analysis on the game ( haven’t finished watching the 2nd half)

1st half Widnes had

17 completed sets
4 incomplete sets
1 set resulting in a 7 tackle set for fax
Conceded 2 penalties
Made 2 handling errors.

Halifax

11 completed sets
2 incomplete sets
3 sets resulting in 7 tackle set for Widnes
5 conceded penalties
4 handling errors

During our purple patch in the 2nd half we completed 11 sets in a row to Widnes ‘ 4 till joe Martin tried to offload in the tackle then we conceded 2 consecutive penalties, offside from the scrum then high tackle to give them a penalty kick .

Ultimately like mentioned before it’s handling errors and silly penalties conceded that costs us . Interestingly and why I believe Grix goes for the mobile stamina based forward is we complete our sets faster than the opposition , it happened for 20 mins against London and 15 against Widnes, the opposition starts to flag and we add to this by having a relentless gwaze type character on the field . Problem is up to now we undo all that by sloppy play , if/ when it clicks we will score tries on the bounce , if you listen to grixs’ interview that’s what he’s referring to .

Exactly this - the pitch at the South Stand end makes defending and getting out of your own end more difficult. We were in control in the 2nd half and I was confident we could go on and win an maybe get a few more scores. But in those conditions all it takes is an odd error to give away the territory - we made 3 in quick succession

Enjoyed Sunday and glad to return from Yorkshire with the narrowest of victories. Our form for playing away, even on grass, it terrible, add in to the mix a rainy, boggy day, I was pleasantly surprised with how we played. Your lads didn't really show up first half and it felt comfortable at one stage, but once you kicked on in the second half, we were hanging on for a long time.Our halfbacks did a good job, as did doro on loan and Tyler Dupree, think the local Halifax lad has a massive future in the game

It could have gone either way and you just need to concentrate on your next games and start picking the points up, i saw enough from Fax to say them and Widnes look fairly matched and you should go well for the rest of the season

We got there at half 11 on the train, straight to the White Horse. Great pint, very cheap and talking to a number of Fax fans in there. Would go back. Also had a couple in the Duke of Wellington and Royal Oak

Look forward to next years trip

Penalties, errors, poor decision making, there always going to be part of that in every teams game but the fact it’s been mentioned in after the game analysis on numerous occasions from within the club as a problem suggest it’s more than spectators just having a moan.
I fully understand why SG is going with the relentless Gwaze type player and on a hot summers day on a dry pitch can see that being very affective in blowing the lungs out of the big lump opponent.
In the meantime, in winter conditions before you get to wearing your summer trainers and tea shirts it might be prudent to have a pair of big boots and an overcoat in your wardrobe.
We’ve gone all in on a one strategy approach and another couple of losses (if not already) will equate to missing the hoped for good start to the season and relying on a big mid / end of season run in.

Anyway I’m now off to chill out, apparently according to our resident mind reading medical expert I need to relax more.

I can't read that far from Singapore

don't worry pal. We need to remain cohesive, not many fax fans left. A very effective analogy by the way and you are right that 'avoidable' loses such as what might be coming up this weekend might prove agonising towards the business end of the season.

Well I’m already up in Keswick for the short trip to Workington.
Very wet up here already with a couple of big storms on their way in one after the other with rain and 60 to 90 mph winds forecast depending on how far north you are to hit Wednesday / Thursday and possibly beyond.
Have to see how things turn out for the game but those lakes or more accurately mere’s aren't here by accident.



Incidentally did anyone pick up on Kyle Wood maybe being available for this week?

Some more stats courtesy of Widnes https://twitter.com/widnesrl/status/149 ... 04256?s=21 As regards the forwards it’s an ongoing debate , we have been unfortunate with injuries to gee and knowles . There are too many variable unknowns to make complete judgments , one is finances , have we spent close to our budget because of the the rumoured two leagues of ten , we appear to have at least 3 financially healthy sponsors in stage freight , eclipse energy and Deliveree , listening to various sources this is where some extra capital came from for some of the signings however Grix seemed to debunk that theory in his interview with mick gledhill stating the funds had come from better management of funds not independent investments . So how much money we had or have left is an unknown. I think overall Keyes Aston and jouffret are an upgrade on Harris and Robinson but due to injury we won’t see knowles for the rest of the season and gee till April, gwaze has been a good signing . I wonder if Grix new gee was injured when he signed him . If we had been offered Dupree then that is a mistake imo and I’m hoping we draft on an Oliver roberts type player for the double fev matches then the Leigh games .

Some more stats courtesy of Widnes https://twitter.com/widnesrl/status/149 ... 04256?s=21 As regards the forwards it’s an ongoing debate , we have been unfortunate with injuries to gee and knowles . There are too many variable unknowns to make complete judgments , one is finances , have we spent close to our budget because of the the rumoured two leagues of ten , we appear to have at least 3 financially healthy sponsors in stage freight , eclipse energy and Deliveree , listening to various sources this is where some extra capital came from for some of the signings however Grix seemed to debunk that theory in his interview with mick gledhill stating the funds had come from better management of funds not independent investments . So how much money we had or have left is an unknown. I think overall Keyes Aston and jouffret are an upgrade on Harris and Robinson but due to injury we won’t see knowles for the rest of the season and gee till April, gwaze has been a good signing . I wonder if Grix new gee was injured when he signed him . If we had been offered Dupree then that is a mistake imo and I’m hoping we draft on an Oliver roberts type player for the double fev matches then the Leigh games .

I think you have made the point about our pack better then me well said. Another telling factor from sunday was salty getting man of the match well deserved for him but in those conditions forwards should be in there element on a heavy slow pitch but our best players other then Titus where both playing on the wing.