What is this delay all about? Politicians wringing hands while IS lunatics massacre thousands of people.

If you don't think we should get involved, remember IS have one aim: to re-establish the Caliphate and convert or kill every human being they come across. For those who don't know, at its peak the Caliphate stretched across the entire Middle East, North Africa, Spain and Portugal. And they don't want to stop there, they want to fly the black flag over Europe and the USA. They think nothing of killing their own, they'll think even less of attacking the West.

More importantly, right now these complete lunatics are wiping out entire communities, killing or selling girls for slavery and murdering anyone refusing to convert to their horrific brand of Islam. I've seen pictures of a Christian girl tortured and tied to a bed, a cross inserted in her mouth and hammered out through the back of her head. They buried captured Yazidi alive, women and children included. Just picture that. And that's on top of the 'usual' mass killings of opposition troops, militants and civilians, and generally anyone they feel like killing. I've seen a picture of an infant girl with several AK-47 barrels pointed at her head. Every one of these disgusting human beings should be wiped out, now, no questions asked. Even Al-Qaeda have washed their hands of them as too extreme.

But without Western and/or Iranian/Turkish intervention it's hard to see the Iraqis, Kurds, Peshmerga, Syrians or Lebanese overcoming IS. They are well-armed and well-financed and use overwhelming violence and fear to sweep forward, reinforcing that fear via the media and internet. They also force young men to join their ranks or die. Once in the ranks, you don't leave.

And our leaders are seemingly scared of getting involved. Whether you agree the existence of IS is down to Western policy or not, we have a duty to help. Fine, don't put boots on the ground yet, but the combined air power of NATO is more than enough to defeat them, or at least weaken them enough that local forces can do what needs to be done. Limited US strikes will help but isn't enough.

RAF Tornados in a 'reconnaissance' role? Please. Grow a pair Cameron, and bomb these vile sub-human filth out of existence.

Yes but, you forgot one key point... IT'S NOT GAZA!! SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF GAZA!!!

On a serious note regarding your post, i always thought i'd struggle with the idea of taking somebody's life if push came to shove, but i'd quite happily take out that rabble without hesitation. Horrible, horrible people.

I understand what you mean. I think it's all about context though isn't it. The vast majority of normal people would struggle to take a life in cold blood for no reason.
But put in the context of someone who's threatening the lives of your kids? Then a lot of people's ability to take that life would suddenly change.

I have a couple of mates in the Army, one of whom has seen combat in the infantry in both Afghanistan and Iraq. In basic training he found thought of taking a life very difficult as it was all theoretical at that point. After he and his comrades had come under fire a few times he says he soon found himself, not eager, but perfectly willing to take a life and return fire at another human being. He himself says probably made easier by the fact it was from a distance and you couldn't really see the person you were firing at.

He was ordered to fix bayonets once, which to use his own words, " him right up". And those doubts came flooding back.

Generally, if you can justify it for some reason I think most people could take a life, especially from a distance where you don't connect the person as much as if they're up close.

That's why governments/dictatorships/religions/organisations/movements/cults etc always have to give their armies/followers a reason to kill.


As for the OP's point, I agree entirely. I think we should be bombing ISIS into oblivion and helping the Iraqis and Kurds take back their territory. And then help rebuild their country. I think Cameron is being pretty weak on this, especially when the US have already started with air strikes.

Hopefully some good might come out of this in the end as Iraq may actually work better together at national level and realise they can't afford to alienate any part of their country.

Where are the mass protests, cabinet resignations, etc...

Nowhere, because no-one is interested. Because it's not Gaza.

I think we chucked some food parcels out of the back of a Herc though...

leave them to it, we've been trying to "fix" the Middle East for centuries, it cannot and will not be done. leave Israel and Palestine to it as well.

We need to become a lot more Swiss about life, look after ourselves unless it's a direct threat.

I agree, and particularly when your OWN life is in danger, but i'm sure during the thousands of years of warfare, men have frozen on the spot in the heat of a fire/sword fight at the thought of killing and they've been killed themselves. These IS loonies would have no hesitation to end my life, purely for the fact that i'm a dirty, white Westerner, so i'd be a lot less hesitant about killing them first.

Lady Warsi is probably cheering IS on from her home.... and her 2nd home probably

Utter utter rubbish




We have never tried to fix the middle east we have tried to CONTROL it.

That control meant that we created artificial countries that have been riven by religious, ethnic, and tribal strife for years.

That ks why we slit the Kurds up into FIVE different countries.

The west will arm the Kurds now to do their dirty work and then will sit back when the Turks or someone else starts slaughtering them like they have done for the last 100 years.


.

your opinion is consistent, I'll give you that.

Cameron being weak ?

Do him a favour, there's an election next year, if he sends in the Tornados now by next year it'll be boots on the ground and Afghanistan all over again, "Just when I thought I was out they PULL me back in again..."

The US is doing limited bombing, but am I missing something? I seem to recall that there were more than 2 countries in the world, including quite a few in "the East" and even in "the Middle East". Why is it then just the job of the UK to play world policeman and spend more billions we don't have on a war with IS? (Which does have the money, effectively both Qatari backing and what they have seconded and looted effectively making their top brass billionaires).

Why can't the world "gang up" on this scum? Why the deafening silnce and sitting on hands around the entire globe?

If no other countries have an appetite for a fight then they could all chip in a few billion apiece to pay for mercenary efforts in their name.

Our problem is that the UK is actually in no position at all to be the world policeman, and the world and IS well knows this.

Completely agree with the OP, was voicing almost identically his words in discussions on the subject

But, the fundamental problem is that if the west ( US and UK ) once again try to rid the world of this scum then they will again be accused of ' colonialism and some other nutjob Islamic Fundamentaists will swear death to the ' infidels '

Only the muslims can sort out muslin loonies, but they dont want to, their faith is stronger than their basic humanity, until they can overcome that principle then we will forever be cursed with these murderers

The IS is operating close to the shores of the Med, and only around 20 miles from the Turkish border.

Little too close for comfort, don't you think?

With their now vast wealth, what's to stop them plotting and carrying out who knows what in Western countries? Don't say "intelligence", as 7/7/2005 and the death of De Menenzes (sp) proves that the UK is not infallible. You would think though, that Turkey would have a considerable enough armed forces to deal with any incursions into their territory by IS.

For a true global response all you need to ask is "Who are their weapons suppliers ?".

They have the money but they do not have the capability to manufacture accurate weapons and ammunition - Hamas make their own rockets but they are as accurate and predictable as a £2 bonfire night rocket and so would be the IS ones if they were making their own, so clearly they are purchasing munitions and as Kurdish sources are suggesting, they are purchasing very modern stuff, far more advanced than anything the Kurds have.

So who is supplying them and how is it getting shipped to them, questions where the answers will already be known by governments heavy with surveillance but light on the will to lean on their own weapons manufacturers or other countries with whom they have a "relationship".

Political will is all thats missing.