FORUMS > The Sin Bin > IS and the Western response |
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| Wont someone please think of the oil
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| Quote: Standee "had we not gotten involved, Hitler would have left the UK alone. We wasted millions of lives fighting an ideal.'"
That's an interesting opinion - The likelihood that Hitler would have left us alone after taking the rest of continental Europe (including Russia) seems highly unlikely though.
At best, through negotiation heavily weighted in the Nazi's favour, we would have become a meaningless colony of a German Empire - Perhaps allowed to 'govern' ourselves, but, ultimately, under the umbrella of the Nazis - There is no chance that Hitler would have left us alone considering we still had bits of our own empire scattered around the globe, bits which would have come under increasing attack from Nazi allies, which would be buoyed from an overwhelming European campaign.
I agree that ISIS are, at present, just an annoyance, but for the long term it would be advisable to do away with them now, than to allow them to grow into a serious threat.
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| Quote: Standee "had we not gotten involved, Hitler would have left the UK alone. We wasted millions of lives fighting an ideal.'"
A theory which doesn't really stand the acid test of "He probably wouldn't bother with The Channel Isles either".
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| Quote: Him "Agree entirely. That doesn't mean Britain & France were wrong to oppose Germany in WW1.
In the same way as it isn't wrong to oppose and confront dictators and regimes.
As you say, the wrong part of it is in not dealing with and planning for the aftermath of the removal of the dictators and regimes.
The US wanted a nice quick and easy war in Iraq. Get rid of Saddam in a few months, another couple of years of setting up a parliament and support and they'd be gone. Whereas they should've planned for 20 years of military and civilian support after the "war" had ended.
Groups like IS and others in Libya etc are always going to appear after a dictatorship is removed. It appears IS is much more extreme than most, which is why it's important to defeat them. But they're the next step that has to be overcome to reach a relatively stable, relatively democratic way of life for these countries. And we should be there to support them.'"
But the absolute stupidity of all of this is that following WW2, we (the Allies - mostly US & UK), apparently learned the lessons of post-WW1 and we set about rebuilding the infrastructure, industries and economies of Germany & Japan. The Japanese and to a lesser extent, the Germans embraced the philosophies of W Edwards Deming, they focussed on product improvement and customer service.
We bombed the [is[/ihit out of Iraq and then did fookall else but allow Haliburton to steal billions of $ in the name of rebuilding infrastructure.
The major difference between now and post-WW2 is back in 1945, there may well have been opportunists but they'd look like rank-amateur Wild West carpetbaggers when compared to the vulture capitalists and NeoCons who control today's economies. These people don't want to see a thriving Iraq, Syria or anywhere else, they want to see a subjugated nation, willing to give away its natural assets for a bowl of rice and some clean water.
It is the NeoCons who should be brought to account, they have encouraged this situation, purely in the name of short-term profit.
If the economies of Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria had been allowed to flourish, there never would have been an audience for ISIS.
The same goes for what Israel is doing to Palestine. If Sodastream had actually invested in Gaza, instead of looking at cheap real estate and even cheaper labour, it's extremely doubtful whether Hamas would be where they are now
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| Anyone using the word 'gotten' immediately renders their opinion invalid.
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| Quote: Standee "We should never get involved, not our issue, not our concern. We live on a island, unless they start taking sailing lessons. ignore them. ISIS are a wasp, leave them alone and they'll sting someone else.'"
Basically they want me, my wife, my kids, my parents dead, for no other reason than I dont blindly follow their fairy story, their version of Lord Of the Rings or Harry Potter
Get rid now
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| Quote: Starbug "Basically they want me, my wife, my kids, my parents dead, for no other reason than I dont blindly follow their fairy story, their version of Lord Of the Rings or Harry Potter
Get rid now'"
but you follow another story, because you're white and right?
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| Quote: Cronus "Anyone using the word 'gotten' immediately renders their opinion invalid.'"
This post deserves more likes than any other on rl fans
come on i'll be the first.
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| Quote: Standee "but you follow another story, because you're white and right?'"
I dont follow any story, I dont need a book to tell me right from wrong, catholic,jew,christian,mormon,hindu,scientology no problem with any
IS are different, when the local jehova's knock on sunday and we discuss belief they dont hack my head off afterwards, nor me theirs
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| Quote: Standee "had we not gotten involved, Hitler would have left the UK alone. ..'"
Must be right, we had it in writing;
Quote: Standee "The settlement of the Czechoslovakian problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe may find peace. This morning I had another talk with the German Chancellor, Herr Hitler, and here is the paper which bears his name upon it as well as mine. ... We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again.'"
As we all know, Herr Hitler was a man of his word, and peace in all Europe duly and rapidly ensued.
Operation Sealion and Directive 16, like the Moon landings, are clearly just fakes.
War could have been avoided had Britain surrendered to Germany, but I have this pernickety thing whereby surrendering isn't quite equivalent to "being left alone". Call me picky.
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| Quote: Cronus "Anyone using the word 'gotten' immediately renders their opinion invalid.'"
Why? Gotten is, in fact, an old English word and the use of it is to be lauded before it disappears from our wonderful language for ever.
As long as it isn't used in the ised American way which idicates gaining a possession (e.g., 'I've gotten a new dumpster truck...'), it's fine.
Standee uses it in it's correct English format to indicate the past participle of 'get'. I.e., 'We shouldn't have gotten involved' is perfectly correct English.
Not to criticise any ill-gotten misconceptions, of course.
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| rlIndefinite ceasefire agreedrl
Let's see eh?
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| And in other news.
I actually thought that this dopey bint taking herself across the pond to the US would keep her quiet, apparently nothttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvYFE_CCcAAznSr.jpg" >
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| Quote: cod'ead "And in other news.
I actually thought that this dopey bint taking herself across the pond to the US would keep her quiet, apparently nothttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvYFE_CCcAAznSr.jpg" >'"
First rule of any debate is not to reveal your shortcomings. Has she not heard of Google before pressing Tweet?
Idiot
Is she worth following for amusement value?
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| Quote: Chris28 "
Is she worth following for amusement value?'"
Not really mate, there's far too much tragedy to balance the amusement. You'd just end up gnashing your teeth or banging your head on a desk.
She really is fooking thick
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