no, you didn't. All Labour ever do is spend.

50% of the investment in the NHS simply went on increasing the salaries of the people already in post. The lack of real investment by Labour has been a lack of trained doctors and nurses

Minimum wage - a brilliant idea and should be applauded

Devolution - should have included it both ways i.e. why do we have the SNP in Westminster - they have absolutely nothing to do but cause trouble. They don't represent anyone as these people are represented in their own parliament

Good Friday agreement - see minimum wage

Civil partnerships etc - good stuff

Cancelled debt - why lend it in the first place? If you give a drug addict credit - you are not going to get paid, if you lend money to despot to buy mansions in Geneva you aren't getting that back. Perhaps we should be investing closer to home

Climate change - pointless unless you can the real polluters to change behaviour - its like corporation tax whilst ever you have a silo view on global matters your input will be pretty worthless.

Sadly all you lefties who think you know what's best for the rest of us still have a say - stupid people still have a vote

I can't disagree it was nothing short of financial accounting corruption. But the current position is just as much down to Tory austerity & financial policy.

I don't have any problem with that. I believe self-determination is an inalienable right; I'd be surprised if Leavers objected to that.

That is complete rubbish. Your last sentence is partially correct, however, any sensible company would use the marketing opportunity. I have worked in SD for over 20 years, with national & international businesses. There has always been an appetite but a worry & ignorance over how to get there. Leeds Climate Commission produced a roadmap of how to achieve zero carbon. The leader of that is an economist; the conclusion is that it can stack up financially, while creating new growth sector jobs. Wind turbine manufacture is growing in some of the most deprived areas of the UK. There has been a huge shift in priority & urgency over the last 12 months, on the back of the IPCC report & Attenborough's Blue Planet.

Sal, you seem to have deliberately missed the last part of my post.
Like you, my own personal experience of the NHS has been excellent. I think that it's the UK's best "asset" and something that maost of the world truly envies about our country.

However, on Mental Health, it's bloody woeful and desperately short on resource, which believe me, is causing/allowing young people to take their lives due to an abject lack of support for those in crisis.

As I said 3 MONTHS WAITING TIME FOR A REFERAL FOR URGENT CASES, usually people who have talked about or actually attempted suicide and if they go from child to adult (ie turn 1icon_cool.gif during treatment, they go to the back of the queue.

This is not being political it's just a statement of fact.

"well it was alright when I grazed my knee" doesnt change the above

Wrong.

The NHS is far from perfect but on the whole it offers a good service. Mental health is a difficult one because for one our understanding of the brain is so limited compared to the rest of the body. If you have angina because of a blocked artery easy, if you have depression multiple reasons more difficult - stress how much harder is that to diagnose and treat than a broken leg. Physical injuries are quick and easy to treat. Mental health can take years to treat. How much of mental illness will resolve itself with a change of inputs. You are depressed but you meet a new partner, you get a new job etc. If you have a blocked artery it needs treating or it will get worse.

I go back to my earlier point the NHS has a finite amount of money - new treatments come along, we are all living longer, we are more aware of conditions etc. So how do you spend the money in the most constructive manner. All teenagers go through times of self doubt etc. its really tough their peer group lack the sensitivity to behave in an adult fashion its brutal. Most find a way and I would suggest a lot more would find a way if encouraged and supported without the need for the NHS.

How do you fund it and to what level and what services do you expect it to offer. If we put another £20bn in where does it get spent, my view is training and equipment not huge increases in pay for existing personnel.

Over Labour’s 13 years in power from 1997 to 2010, healthcare budgets grew by 5.6 per cent a year on average. They grew by 1.3 per cent a year under the Conservatives between 2010 and 2016. I am not in a position to dispute your statement; not that I have a problem with adequately rewarding those who do such a vital job. I am sure attracting & retaining the best staff should be a priority.

Because England, Westminster still has reserved powers over Scotland's Benefits and social security, Taxes, Pensions, Immigration, Defence, Foreign policy, Employment, Nuclear energy, oil, coal, gas and electricity.

Again, you miss the point.
A young person attempting suicide has to wait 3 MONTHS FRO A REFERAL due to lack of resource.
I suppose if they are successful in their attempt, it save the taxpayer some money FFS

The funding for this, as an absolute minimum, needs to allow as close to an instant referral, to try and prevent the loss of life.
Yes, the issues can be extremely complex but, the cuts under the Tory regime, especially in mental health have decimated this part of the NHS.
Yes, when certain Royals jumped on the mental health bandwagon, their was lip service towards dealing with the issue but, the current change doesn't even begin to replace what has been cut.
On a related subject, one of the reasons for some hospital wards being full is the lack of care available outside of the hospitals.
Again, social care under this government has been butchered but, hey, let's have some more tax cuts, especially for those paying the top level of tax.
It's fundamentally disgusting that ANYONE, let alone those "running" the country should think this way.

Until a government, of whichever leaning, makes multi-national corporates pay the tax they should owe then things will not change. You can't blame the likes of Google, FlynScare, Appleetc for playing the rules as they stand, but you can blame successive governments fornot changing the rules. I would pay moretax if I didn't see so much being wasted. The EU is a prime example of a waste of money.

You miss the point FFS - there is a finite amount of money so where do you spend it - do you treat a car crash victim who will definitely die if you don't treat or on a youngster who may or may not commit suicide - these are hideous choices. There are only so many trained professionals so how do you allocate their time. It takes years to train these people so just throwing money at increased salaries isn't the answer IMO - training more is.

I am not arguing that it is not needed but the NHS has to make judgement calls on how it spends its money.

How would you spend it

Of course you would.

Compared to UK Government it is extremely efficient. Feel free to copy & paste a Daily Express article or expand on your latest glib soundbite with a bit of personal insight to back it up.

Attempted insults, how very you.

why don't you go back to the 70's when your lot were messing up our country with walkouts, strikes etc.

Glib. Answer the question.

You believe the EU to be efficient, that is your malaise, not mine.

I said compared to the UK it is. I can back up my statement. Over to you.

The starter for 10 would be to NOT promise tax cuts, when life and death situations are being ignored - that was easy want it.

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That is not going to get your mentally ill teenager treated - perhaps we should direct all this money it is going to cost to buy back all these utilities into the NHS? equally easy



So your an overworked professional your choice is a child being abused at home or a teenager contemplating suicide what do you do - these are the choices that have to be made? You are not stupid so why is this such a difficult reality for you to accept?

Should we also stop gender reassignment, gastric bands etc?

Lung Cancer
Obesity
Diabetes
Alcoholism
Drug Addiction
Cosmetic Surgery

as Sal says, where does it start, where does it stop?

It is a finite pot of money where demands on it through increased population and advances in clinical and drug techniques are running faster than the money you can put into it. This is not a difficult concept to grasp - seriously!!

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So your ok with kids committing suicide ?

I dont know the timetables for treatment of all the above, some of which are extremely serious but, others are not likely to mean the imminent death of someone.
You're the genius, maybe you should decide.

Maybe your solution would be to wait until someone is dangling on a rope or bleeding out and then treat them.
Personally, I would suggest that, where possible, it may be better not to let things reach that point.

As I said in my pervious post, our current government has slashed certain services during the 10+ years of austerity and would rather cut taxes for the top 5% of earners that help people at the bottom of the pile.
In what type of civilised society can this be right ??

You really are a prize tool.

I asked earlier why or how it can be right to offer tax cuts, when there are such serious issues to deal with - get a grip man.

No name calling or we'll all get dun.

Agreed, we have differences, but we can discuss as grown ups.

Personally, I cannot decide who is more "deserving", a suicidal teenager, a lung cancer sufferer who has smoked 100 a week, a dementia sufferer, someone who identifies as a different gender, someone who is overweight but cannot stop eating.

As Sal has said, where does it stop?

Now, were it a family member of mine needing the help and support I can't say, in good conscience, that I wouldn't step over a stranger to help my flesh and blood. That is human nature.

What I dislike is these politicians, on all sides, earning £100k plus, claiming expenses etc. and pontificating to me that I should pay more tax for them to squander. I have been aroud the Westminster Machine for years, and believe me, whichever cheeks are sat on the seat at No 10, the (un)Civil Servants do not change.

But it's all going to be OK, France and Finland have given the UK an ultimatum, personally I'd say well "f'k you", see how your combined strengths in trade, defense etc. serve you.