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| Quote ="kirkstaller"So could we [iall[/i be brainwashed?'"
We could, but it's infinitely more likely in those who believe stuff that flies in the face of logic and empirical evidence.
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| Quote ="kirkstaller"Nothing like loading the question.
I don't want to go over old ground but I consider there to be a factual basis for my beliefs, as well as a spiritual basis.'"
Factual is probably the wrong word, as what constitutes a 'FACT' is, as these boards regularly show us, entirely subjective. It would be more accurate to say that there is no [ievidential[/i basis for your beliefs.
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| Quote ="Rock God X"Factual is probably the wrong word, as what constitutes a 'FACT' is, as these boards regularly show us, entirely subjective. It would be more accurate to say that there is no [ievidential[/i basis for your beliefs.'"
Again, I would disagree and say that there is ample evidence.
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| Quote ="kirkstaller"Again, I would disagree and say that there is ample evidence.'"
brainwa.... forget it.
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| Quote ="kirkstaller"Again, I would disagree and say that there is ample evidence.'"
So, no need for the old 'faith' malarky, then?
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| Quote ="kirkstaller"Again, I would disagree and say that there is ample evidence.'"
Excellent. You won't have any problem linking to the peer-reviewed papers and/or scientific journals that support your claims, then.
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| Quote ="Mintball"So, no need for the old 'faith' malarky, then?'"
No, you need faith in Jesus in order to be saved.
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| Quote ="Rock God X"Excellent. You won't have any problem linking to the peer-reviewed papers and/or scientific journals that support your claims, then.'"
Are you saying evidence only comes in the forms mentioned above?
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| Quote ="kirkstaller"Are you saying evidence only comes in the forms mentioned above?'"
that's the commonly accepted definition
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| Quote ="kirkstaller"Are you saying evidence only comes in the forms mentioned above?'"
It can come in many forms but pointing to something like the Turin Shroud is certainly not evidence that it once contained Jesus. All it is, is evidence of a piece of old cloth with an unusual stain on it, that if you were to squint in a strange way, you might "see" an image that resembles an arcane representation of what someone thought Christ may have looked like.
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| Quote ="kirkstaller"Are you saying evidence only comes in the forms mentioned above?'"
For scientific purposes, yes.
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| Quote ="cod'ead"It can come in many forms but pointing to something like the Turin Shroud is certainly not evidence that it once contained Jesus. All it is, is evidence of a piece of old cloth with an unusual stain on it, that if you were to squint in a strange way, you might "see" an image that resembles an arcane representation of what someone thought Christ may have looked like.'"
maybe he's referring to the episode of Only Fools and Horses where the statue cries, was a miracle!
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| Just because kirkstaller (in common with a lot of other people) has his belief, that doesn't necessarily mean he is brainwashed.
He could just as easily be deluded, irrational, blinkered, illogical, needy or just plain wrong ... all without having been brainwashed.
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| well someone appears to have a sense of humour. I've just been informed that my latest follower on twitter is:
Jews for Jesus
should be fun
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| Quote ="cod'ead"well someone appears to have a sense of humour. I've just been informed that my latest follower on twitter is:
Jews for Jesus
should be fun'"
Some years ago, I had a legacy from an elderly great aunt in Plymouth. The legacies, before the estate was shared out, included one to Bibles for Israel.
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| Quote ="kirkstaller"Are you saying evidence only comes in the forms mentioned above?'"
Go on, then, just post ONE piece of your "ample evidence", to be going on with. Then we can have some fun.
Of course, you can't, so will instead either retort with some pathetic rhetorical device, or more probably as usual pretend that I have not asked you anything, in the adult equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears, or hiding under the bed.
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| The Turin Shroud I can live with, it has a stain that might look like a man, or not, and because it might look like a man doesn't mean that its the same man known from the bible as Jesus, he could have been a soft fat black man for all we know.
Anyway...
The Turin Shroud aside, when you see a Jesus face on a slice of toast - what does that mean, and why does he do things like that - to fook with the minds of the gullible ?
I bet he has a right laugh some days.
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| Quote ="McLaren_Field".
The Turin Shroud aside, when you see a Jesus face on a slice of toast - what does that mean, and why does he do things like that -...'"
It's a signal to kirkstaller to put the kettle on.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"It's a signal to kirkstaller to put the kettle on.'"
still not answering your questions I notice, he's nearly as fickle as his god about making appearances.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"Quote ="kirkstaller"Are you saying evidence only comes in the forms mentioned above?'"
Go on, then, just post ONE piece of your "ample evidence", to be going on with. Then we can have some fun.
Of course, you can't, so will instead either retort with some pathetic rhetorical device, or more probably as usual pretend that I have not asked you anything, in the adult equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears, or hiding under the bed.'"
I'm sure he'll be along presently with a link to 'Answers In Genesis', or summat.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"Go on, then, just post ONE piece of your "ample evidence", to be going on with. Then we can have some fun.
Of course, you can't, so will instead either retort with some pathetic rhetorical device, or more probably as usual pretend that I have not asked you anything, in the adult equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears, or hiding under the bed.'"
You were the one who scuttled off last time.
As for evidence, by the far most convincing is the daily spiritual relationship I have with Jesus. Second is the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth. Third, the creation which surrounds us.
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| Quote ="kirkstaller" Second is the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth.'"
The what? FFS.
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| I see the clique are ganging up again! 
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| Quote ="ryano"I see the clique are ganging up again!
'"
The poster in question has chosen to join an already ongoing discussion, they have posted their views, people are allowed to challenge them, if the poster considers this bullying then they have the option to move on and not post on threads such as this.
Now if you have nowt else to add to the conversation I suggest you do one.
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"Just because kirkstaller (in common with a lot of other people) has his belief, that doesn't necessarily mean he is brainwashed.
He could just as easily be deluded, irrational, blinkered, illogical, needy or just plain wrong ... all without having been brainwashed.'"
And he could be none of the above.
Let he who is without sin... 
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