FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? |
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| Quote: cod'ead "Of course it should but as you say, it has been ignored for decades.
How would you go about teaching budgeting to a recently-released smackhead?'"
The same way we can teach that smackhead to stay off the drugs and the same way we can plough resources into having them report to an office every other week.
Quote: cod'ead "We've been teaching maths and English for centuries, there is still a sizeable number of the population who struggle with either or both'"
Running a budget is way more than simple maths as you well know, there has to be a starting point though, we shouldn't have to have a system that allows some people to have their backsides wiped because that can't be bothered to learn how.
That's not to say I agree with the way this lot are doing it but the principle is sound enough.
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67953_1341943970.jpg Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
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[url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0]
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| ...and then mix in the ethic that has been taught since the 1980s that you CAN have it all and you CAN have it now, even if your earnings mean you'll be paying for it for an awful long time.
Budgeting is far more than working out what your rent, rates, utilities and food bills are, its also, as Mintball has pointed out, setting aside contingencies and paying off the debt that you accumulated ten years ago because someone said you could and you couldn't see any reason why you shouldn't have some of those things too as long as the credit card minimum repayment was so low.
I leave it all to the wife these days, being brought up in a coal miners family means she knows all about living on tight margins and varying earnings.
Which accidentally brings us full circle again - how the fook does anyone learn even the basics of budgeting when you don't know how many hours you'll be working next week ?
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2051.jpg The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
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kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
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"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg |
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| Quote: Big Graeme "The same way we can teach that smackhead to stay off the drugs and the same way we can plough resources into having them report to an office every other week.
Running a budget is way more than simple maths as you well know, there has to be a starting point though, we shouldn't have to have a system that allows some people to have their backsides wiped because that can't be bothered to learn how.
That's not to say I agree with the way this lot are doing it but the principle is sound enough.'"
"Backsides wiped"?
Did you glean that little snippet from the Dally Wail?
When someone is on the bones of their a[ir[/ise, even when getting various benefits paid on a fortnightly basis, suddenly find they will now be paid monthly, in arrears. Then also suddenly find that after they've gone a fortnight with NO MONEY coming in, that the rent that used to be paid directly to the landlord, is now sitting in their personal account, who do you think they will look after first? My guess would be the landlord would be behind the loansharks and dealers.
The CAB budget has been slashed, along with many other support groups. Charities working with the underprivileged are at bursting point. The proposed privatisation of the Probation Service (another that has suffered huge staff cuts), will do nothing to improve reintegration of ofenders or reduce recidivism. Who will provide the necessary budgeting skills?
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Quote: JerryChicken "... Which accidentally brings us full circle again - how the fook does anyone learn even the basics of budgeting when you don't know how many hours you'll be working next week ?'"
Precisely.
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1136_1263489772.jpg Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1136.jpg |
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| Quote: Ajw71 "Nearly impossible? - more sensationalist rubbish. Any excuse just so benefit claimants cannot take some personal responsibility! Don't you want them to make a better life for themselves, don't you want them to improve their life chances?...'"
Come on then Einstein.
How do you budget when you don't know what your income will be?
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Rank | Posts | Team |
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Quote: El Barbudo "Come on then Einstein.
How do you budget when you don't know what your income will be?'"
... or even whether you will get any.
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| Quote: JerryChicken "We shouldn't necessarily pick on the likes of Ajw71 for I have noticed these past couple of years that those of the 20 to 35 (ish) generation are broadly more supportive of the benefits cuts, I don't know if this will convert to Tory votes in 2015 but I have a few loose theories for the apparent lack of sympathy and empathy for the unemployed, disabled and benefit dependent low waged...
1. In that age group there is an opposition to the principle of paying tax, its of no apparent benefit to a young fit, healthy employee, eventual retirement is not on the agenda at all, the NHS is somewhere you go to when you've drunk too much on a Saturday night, your doctor is somewhere you go for birth control, there is no thought to what else goes into running a National Health Service, there is no knowledge of how things used to be for their grandparents before the NHS.
2. They have already been told that the NIS that is deducted at source every week/month is not for their benefit, its not for their pension and they won't have a pension when they retire, its to pay for their elder generation's pension and for a health service that sick, old people use - I'd feel resentful for that too.
3. Cynicism only comes with age and life experience, possibly they just don't understand that a member of government could actually be in the job for their own ideology and own financial benefit, and that when a member of government says that something is so and mentions in passing some random statistics, then maybe they just don't immediately think "prove it" but in stead think that it must be so and how lucky are we that they are doing something about it.
4. That undeveloped cynicism doesn't help them question the printed media either, there is still a big belief in the population at large that if a newspaper prints something then it must be true and that all newspapers are totally independent of government interference or spoon-feeding.
5. They have not yet lived through enough governments to understand that party politics are a destructive and wasteful past-time, that supporting a party regardless of its philosophy is not what government should be about and that the strong should, even in some small way, protect the weak in any civilisation - that it is as wrong to target the weak and poor as "shirkers" and in some way as leaches of your personal taxation as it would be to say the same thing about (for instance) black people (and that used to happen and was used by political parties too).
In short, when young you believe that you are far more invincible than at any other time of your life, you don't believe that your parents were ever young or that they have ever held any other viewpoint than the one they have now, if they tell you that they now have the experience to judge better you dismiss that as condescending - next time you have an opportunity to speak to a 20 or 30-something, just ask them what they think of the government benefit reforms, or of immigration, or the EU and see if you get a view more aligned with Cameron than not.'"
Where as I (25) don't fall in to your generalisation of 20-35 year olds, I agree that the majority are completely apathetic about the NHS, welfare, etc. If I were to try and have a conversation with most of my friends about anything even remotely political, they would end up sounding like an EDL apologist where everything is because of gays and immigrants. I think the biggest problem is, as you say, that people under the age of 35 have no idea of real hardship. I think with most, it will simply be a case of "you don't know what you've got, until it's gone".
Most will see the bedroom tax as a good thing. Some will see it as not going far enough. I would imagine that some would be happier had they just scrapped benefits altogether.
Most will be like Ajw71 where as long as it doesn't directly affect them, it doesn't matter.
I think the reasons for all of this stems mostly out of consumerism. One wants to earn as much as possible yet pay as little as possible on necessities even if it will go towards helping others just so one can buy the latest electronics and clothes.
How can said people be educated to understand the need of the country rather than just themselves, or is this the new direction for the country. Are we going to end up going back to the poor and infirm living in workhouses, going back to living conditions at the end of the 19th century?
Unfortunately, the people that have the same viewpoint as Ajw71 will simply turn a blind eye to this because it doesn't affect them. Some will even profit out of it. This is the same reason our political system will never change.
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2051.jpg The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg |
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| As predicted
No one saw that coming did they? Well no one of a tory leaning saw it. Economic illiterates
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 3605 | No Team Selected |
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Jul 2012 | 12 years | |
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67953_1341943970.jpg Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
[url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0]
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[url=http://jerrychicken.wordpress.com/:lnkxkae0]JerryChicken - The Blog[/url:lnkxkae0]
----------------------------------------------------------:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_67953.jpg |
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| Quote: cod'ead "As predicted
No one saw that coming did they? Well no one of a tory leaning saw it. Economic illiterates'"
Don't be ridiculous, all one has to do is BELIEVE that something is working, for it to be so.
I expect IDS to be along shortly with another ridiculous rebuff on the lines of "I was a high ranking officer in the army you know, I can't possibly be wrong"
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International Chairman | 14522 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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1136_1263489772.jpg Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1136.jpg |
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| Quote: cod'ead "As predicted
No one saw that coming did they? Well no one of a tory leaning saw it. Economic illiterates'"
Add to that the extra staff that Housing Associations, Local Authorities etc. have had to hire specifically as a result of administering the bedroom tax.
I guess IDS "believes" that's all wrong as well.
You only need a quick glance at Wikipedia to see the false claims in IDS' CV about universities and colleges he (never) attended to know what sort of 2@ we're talking about.
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Jul 2012 | 12 years | |
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67953_1341943970.jpg Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
[url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0]
----------------------------------------------------------
[url=http://jerrychicken.wordpress.com/:lnkxkae0]JerryChicken - The Blog[/url:lnkxkae0]
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| Quote: El Barbudo "
You only need a quick glance at Wikipedia to see the false claims in IDS' CV about universities and colleges he (never) attended to know what sort of 2@ we're talking about.'"
Better still, have a read of the statement that was made to the HoC Select Committee on Standards and Privileges on the employment of IDS's wife in his parliamentary office, it dates back ten years to the time that he was leader of the party in opposition, but its fascinating to read about just what a he really is - and remember, this is not a journalist doing a hatchet job but a sworn statement to a HoC committee.
rlhttp://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmstnprv/476/476we17.htmrl
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International Chairman | 14522 | No Team Selected |
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1136_1263489772.jpg Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1136.jpg |
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| Quote: JerryChicken "Better still, have a read of the statement that was made to the HoC Select Committee on Standards and Privileges on the employment of IDS's wife in his parliamentary office, it dates back ten years to the time that he was leader of the party in opposition, but its fascinating to read about just what a poop he really is - and remember, this is not a journalist doing a hatchet job but a sworn statement to a HoC committee.
rlhttp://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmstnprv/476/476we17.htmrl'"
Although I was aware of the controversy around his wife's salary at public expense and the lack of evidence about her actually doing any work, I hadn't read that document.
Blimey !
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67953_1341943970.jpg Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
[url=http://garykitchen.co.uk/:lnkxkae0]Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork[/url:lnkxkae0]
----------------------------------------------------------
[url=http://jerrychicken.wordpress.com/:lnkxkae0]JerryChicken - The Blog[/url:lnkxkae0]
----------------------------------------------------------:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_67953.jpg |
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| Quote: Standee "m.insidehousing.co.uk/regulation/bedroom-tax-mps-claim-child-housing-subsidy/6528260.mobile
Can't tidy it up as on mobile, talk about hypocrites!'"
Quote: Standee "Conservative MP Nigel Adams, who accused the BBC of having a ‘preconceived agenda’ over its bedroom tax coverage, claimed £6,735 for costs related to dependants. He did not comment.'"
I'll bet he didn't want to comment, what could he say other than "Yes, I am a reprehensible little-"
and then probably add, "But I don't care"
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| Tory ministers may be incandescent but the UN have told them how it is.
A fooking disgusting disgraceful tax!
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