the good thing about the 50,000 new nurses is that the majority will not need training or allocation of places because they are already employed within the NHS as nurses.
I suppose with the 40 new hospitals coming on line before the next election according to Johnson that should increase the number of available beds to cater for any emergency.

You're an angry man. Of course I know how the virus works. It attacks the lungs (seemingly killing and sloughing cilia cells) and can bring on acute pneumonia alongside other critical issues such as organ failure (kidneys and liver seem to be most affected) and an intense inflammatory/autoimmune response or 'cytokine storm' which leads to further critical damage in many areas. And all the time the virus continues to attack, and not only in the lungs. Coronaviruses have been found throughout the body. Some will also suffer acute respiratory distress syndrome, for which there is no cure, only supportive treatment. As one academic I spoke to at the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine last week put it, "if it bites, it's a sh*tstorm".

The fact is, something between 2-6% of people infected will die. If you reach a certain point, the best anyone can do is make is ease your pain.

Anyway, let me get this right, if we currently had 50,000 more nurses in the NHS, they would ALL be qualified ICU nurses working in ICU units? And there would be enough units for them and enough beds (there are about 6,000 critical care beds at present) for this 375,000 you pluck out of thin air - even over time - on top of the usual NHS workload? And it sounds like they're working 24/7. You haven't factored in shifts, time off, leave, and sickness - plenty of health workers are falling foul of covid-19.

Furthermore, not one of this 50,000 would be in any other specialisations including district nursing, general practice nursing, rehabilitation nursing, older people’s nursing, A&E nursing, theatre nursing, cancer & palliative care nursing, community staff nursing, mental health nursing, occupational health nursing, etc - there are literally dozens upon dozens of nursing specialisations, very few of which would be trained to handle acute covid-19 cases in an intensive care setting.

And none of them are working in other hospital departments, or at other skilled nursing facilities, outpatient settings, GP offices, clinics, insurance companies, government, community health, schools, universities, police stations, prisons, etc?

Nothing wrong with anger. As the great Johnny Rotten said. Anger is an energy !

Wow you have learnt how to google congratulations. still does not hide the complete ignorance of your previous posts . If you get it you will recover or die. Now you have changed your arguement to if you get it bad you will die.

You still have not swerved the question after apologising for Tory health cuts for years all you are doing know is looking for straw men and saying that all the nurses would not be ICU trained.

Of course but they wouldn’t but they would all be trained in various skills that would keep people alive and or comfortable.

Still Keep on flying the Tory flag and attacking anyone who challenges as commies/ snowflakes and temoaners.

Like the Tories under your thin veneeer of rhetoric , nationalist ideology and free market economics there is very little substance to what you say.

Hospital beds per 1000 people:

Japan 13
S Korea 12
Russia 8
Germany 8
France 6
Switzerland 4.5
China 4.3
Scotland 4.2
Australia 3.8
Italy 3.6
Spain 2.97
Ireland 2.96
USA 2.77
England 2.33

Magic up as many retired GP's and Nurses as you like - herein lies the problem.

At the risk of asking a daft question.
Is the number of beds the physical number of beds or, the number of beds that can be adequately staffed ?

I understood that it was the latter, which, assuming that "we" could re employ all of Boris' retired nurses, there could indeed be an increase in capacity.

There are a myriad of ways to deal with these things and if/when it becomes serious enough, a good dollop of cash will always go some way to helping wit the problem.

At risk of breaking with tradition on here, I don't know; I do know however that the number of available beds is now at an all time low, with a further 17,200 having being cut since the LibDem/Tory coalition took office in 2010.

IF the Coronavirus really kicks in, there will be exceptional steps taken.
Money will be no object and places will be found for those in need but, I would expect that people would be treated in order of priority.
Operations for all apart from emergencies will be cancelled and a way will be found to cope.

There is almost mass hysteria in the media who, as usual, are desperate for a story and whilst there is absolutely no doubt that this thing is serious, talk of stockpiling food etc, is just fueling the fire and right now, our regular winter flu is killing more people but, that doesn't even get a mention.

The media can't wait for the angry queues to form outside of supermarkets. They've already started with photos of empty shelves.

There seems to be little sense of perspective.
The scaremongering programme on the BBC last night was quite ridiculous and will just fuel the fire of fear.
Also, Johnson will have a get out when Brexit and the ecconomy start to fail

He intends to make use of the one year paternity leave without pay option.
I did note that a reporter from just outside the exclusion area of northern Italy drove through various EC countries without any checks. This was a good idea but what does it prove because he started outside the exclusion area. He admitted he would not have been allowed out of the infected areas.
I guess he was trying to show the folly of free movement.

I heard a piece on the radio in the past few days, with a roving reporter doing vox-pops, asking the question - "are people here worried?" His increasingly desperate attempts at locating panic ended triumphantly when one man said, "yes, I expect some people are a bit worried."

At what point do we think the official government line will be "due to the exceptional circumstances of Coronovirus, there is no longer the money available to.........."

Dont want panic everyone but i am already finding difficulties in obtaining certain medicines from my wholesalers and they have no stock of alcohol gels or surgical masks for at least the next 8 weeks paracetamol had quadrupled in price and low availabilty this is just the start of people panic buying and reduced supply of medicines from india our biggest supplier of generic medicines having a massive impact in my job

Same - we have a regular supplier of PPE and cleaning supplies; yesterday they couldn't fill our order for gloves, face masks or hand sanitiser - and they have no indication when the latter will be available again.

Folks are going mad.

Beds will not be found. It is estimated that 100 people will be lining up for each intensive care bed. Only those most likely to survive will be treated. So if you are over 60 or under 60 with an underlying health problem you will not be treated.

Already running out of single use surgical equipment (imported from China!) - so, yes, operations galore will get cancelled.

Another issue - are the government going to build creches for children of NHS staff? The likelihood of closing schools has been mentioned so NHS staff will need to stay at home to look after theirs unless govt magics up huge creches.

I dont doubt that "non urgent" operations will be cancelled, it seems to be an obvious step.
However, your thoughts om treatment will depend on the severity of the illness and of course the numbers involved.

Certainly the situation has some way to go and I guess it all depends on how the governments 4 step plan works out.
Apparently we are between step 1 and step 2.

I dont doubt that, if your figures of 100 people are lining up for each intensive care bed then, it can only be based on need and probability of surviving.

I work for a MAT, and we've been working on a contingency plan for the past week for if we have to start closing schools. If all of ours close, that's over 20 thousand primary and secondary age kids staying at home, many who will need some form of adult supervision.

I'm just border line 60 in June and suffer from RA while it limits my ability to live as I used to do when I could hold a job down it does put me with an underlying health issue with the drugs I have to take to help control it and to be honest I don't feel like it is a threat to me, but that is the pig headed part of me that still thinks I can still change the world

Dont give up on trying to change the world mate and just be pleased that Dally isn't running the health service or the country.
The thing that getting a little older tells us, is to fight for our rights and not be pushed around by anyone and I think you will be ok on that score

I wonder at what stage RL may be affected by this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/51777154 As I suggested in the opening post, travel to and from France will be most interesting, especially for the fans

I wonder at what stage RL may be affected by this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/51777154 As I suggested in the opening post, travel to and from France will be most interesting, especially for the fans

If the NHS is under strain, and people start asking tough questions about why the service has been allowed to degrade so much that it doesn't have capacity for this, I wonder if the government will take responsibility for it, or will they mock outrage at anybody trying to hold them accountable for "using the NHS as a political football" and "taking advantage of the coronavirus crisis".

I think some Government Ministers will be ecstatic at the thought of coronavirus spreading throughout the country.

With an estimated death rate of around three percent & a population of sixty odd million, that could be one hell of a cost saving.

The N.H.S. would be a major benefactor, imagine all the “creaking gates” taken out of the equation, those waiting list would take a hell of a dive.

Add to this the savings on pensions & pension credits, free bus passes, winter fuel allowances & T.V. licences that’s one almighty cost reduction.

Then, with some much new housing stock freed up, prices could come down to a reasonable level.

The future's bright, the future's COVID-19.

Those "creaking gates" are the Conservatives' core voters.

Abdu Sharkawy

I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even
imagine?

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it.

#washurhands #geturflushot #respect #patiencenotpanic