FORUMS > The Sin Bin > President Assad and Mrs. al-Assad |
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17123_1311448581.jpg If you only knew the POWER of the dark side.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17123.jpg |
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| Quote: Kosh "TBH anyone who doesn't have an emotional reaction to the latest news from Syria is probably dead inside.
And no, I don't have any answers either.'"
TBH I have a 1 and a 2 year old and when I saw the footage I honestly though 'oh but for the grace of god go me and my kids' and I got upset at the thought.
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Quote: Kosh "TBH anyone who doesn't have an emotional reaction to the latest news from Syria is probably dead inside.
And no, I don't have any answers either.'"
And I have not suggested that I know what the answer, as I quite clearly don't. But I know what it isn't.
And yes, you're right about the obvious and natural response to the recent footage and, indeed, the facts that we are hearing.
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143_1357419061.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_143.jpg |
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| The solution is easy - if the "West" has a moral, humaniarian interest in the people of Syria but the Russians and Chinese have other interests (as portrayed in our media), then global agreement could easily be reached. The West could say to Russia and China that they can have whatever influence over post-Assad Syria as they want if they help get rid of him. That way every one is a winner - the West's high morality is sated as is the Russian and Chinese desire for power, influence and resources.
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Quote: Dally "The solution is easy - if the "West" has a moral, humaniarian interest in the people of Syria but the Russians and Chinese have other interests (as portrayed in our media), then global agreement could easily be reached. The West could say to Russia and China that they can have whatever influence over post-Assad Syria as they want if they help get rid of him. That way every one is a winner - the West's high morality is sated as is the Russian and Chinese desire for power, influence and resources.'"
Thank you.
A post that reveals again (were it needed) that you really do not have a clue.
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64823_1319661026.jpg Believe:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_64823.jpg |
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| Quote: Mintball "
I mentioned Iran
Hit the nail on the head here Mintball.
Quote: Mintball " "We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow."'"
Despots, tyrants, mass murderers...call them what you will. The West's attitude has always been along the lines of 'it's ok as long as they're our despots, tyrants and mass murderers.'
In reference to the op, you therefore have to extend the question, adding 'how the hell do the Western politicians who put the tyrants in power, arming them to the teeth and selling them the intelligence and expertise to target and use those arms sleep at night?'
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12389.gif :12389.gif |
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| Quote: Mintball "In asking what someone would suggest who has just said there should be no military intervention, you effectively suggest that you cannot see any other option.
I think that we – and other nations – should be very careful about what we consider.'"
Any action against a sovereign state is already extremely carefully considered (for many of the reasons you mention, and many others), regardless of the eventual, possibly unforeseen, outcome or of an often not fully informed public opinion. The hurdle with tyrants such as al-Assad is that the options are limited. Other despots have already proven they have no particular regard for the welfare of their populations and have no problem martyring them in the face of tough sanctions - is that fair on the civilian population? Political pressure only has limited influence; every nation on earth could be yelling at him to stop and he can ignore them. Whatever happens he'll have enough to keep his supporters and his army supplied and fed, and that's all that matters to him.
Quote: Mintball "I mentioned Iran
Yes, that a power vacuum will invariably be filled by the most aggressive and/or ruthless opportunist. And that what to all intents and purposes seems an entirely rational act of intervention at the time, can often later be condemned with the benefit of history.
Quote: Mintball "Look at Afghanistan for another example. So easy to look at the Taliban and say
Going into Afghanistan was bugger all to do with helping women. It was a direct result of 9/11 and the subsequent hunt for anyone and everyone associated with Al-Qaeda. That's the simple truth of it. All the supposed 'benefits' brought to the Afghan population are after the fact. The USA went after Al-Qaeda/Bin Laden with no exit strategy, and given what had just happened in New York as far as I'm concerned they were entitled to do so.
Quote: Mintball "Despots, tyrants, mass murderers...call them what you will. The West's attitude has always been along the lines of 'it's ok as long as they're our despots, tyrants and mass murderers.''"
You could say that of almost any nation. If a despot, tyrant, etc is perhaps favourable to a nation in terms of geopolitical support, trade, etc, and is doing no harm to said nation, why get snarled up in opposing them?
Quote: Mintball "In reference to the op, you therefore have to extend the question, adding 'how the hell do the Western politicians who put the tyrants in power, arming them to the teeth and selling them the intelligence and expertise to target and use those arms sleep at night?''"
If you read many memoirs of those involved in the few circumstances where this has actually occured, most of them express regret, but the common theme is, "it was the right thing to do AT THE TIME. How were we supposed to know what would come next?" As ever, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Quote: Cronus "... Going into Afghanistan was bugger all to do with helping women. It was a direct result of 9/11 and the subsequent hunt for anyone and everyone associated with Al-Qaeda. That's the simple truth of it. All the supposed 'benefits' brought to the Afghan population are after the fact. The USA went after Al-Qaeda/Bin Laden with no exit strategy, and given what had just happened in New York as far as I'm concerned they were entitled to do so...'"
Yes. But one of the 'arguments' used in the media to justify it/garner support was to stress how the Taliban treated women (and others).
Quote: Cronus "... As ever, hindsight is a wonderful thing.'"
History's there for a reason.
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| Quote: Mintball "History's there for a reason.'"
You are correct...
Its because it happened in the past.
World politics is a dirty business and always has been. Atrocities can be accepted if the overall influence of a certain regime is in line with what the rest of the world want for a region such as the middle east. Despite what we have been told, what history really teaches us is that at times (as mentioned) "tyrants" such as the Shah, Hussain, Gadaffi, Assad et al have suited the rest of the world (not just the west) as they stabilised the balance of power in the region preventing larger scale conflicts between nations.
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Quote: Off! Number Seven "You are correct...
Its because it happened in the past...'"
And he who doesn't learn from it is condemned to repeat it.
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2051.jpg The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
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| Quote: Mintball "And he who doesn't learn from it is condemned to repeat it.'"
Especially true of Afghanistan.
We had three goes at it previously, even the might of the Soviet army couldn't manage Afghanistan. I don't think anyone has ever successfully prosecuted a conflict in Afghanistan.
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| Quote: Mintball "Thank you.
A post that reveals again (were it needed) that you really do not have a clue.'"
You're not into satire / extreme irony then?
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'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'
Yves Le Prieur, the real inventor of the aqualung: |
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| Quote: Barnabus "What would you suggest?'"
Send a strongly worded letter, stating our dislike of what they are doing and ask them politely to stop.
Then, sit on the fence for a few more years.
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Quote: rover49 "Send a strongly worded letter, stating our dislike of what they are doing and ask them politely to stop.
Then, sit on the fence for a few more years.'"
What would you do – and would you also do something about all the conflicts FA linked to or just the one that's currently on our TVs?
If you don't think we should interfere in the others, why not? Why would Syria be more 'important' or whatever?
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10123_1554736671.jpg "I've not come 'alfway round t'world fot watch us lose. And I've come halfway round t'world, an' av watched um lose":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10123.jpg |
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| Quote: Mintball "How about what [iyou[/i would suggest?
You want to bomb more people? You want to invade, perhaps?
Big, macho things to do.
Where next? Anywhere else with nasty leaders who do nasty things?
The interfering of nations in the internal politics of other sovereign states has frequently worsened such situations in the past – see Iran as but one example – why would it be any different this time?
And see FA's post.
On top of that, consider this
In other words, you haven't a clue what you would do. Right?
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1977_1349889235.jpg "You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie]
"Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie]
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie]
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie]
[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg |
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| Yes. rlThat's what I said earlier.rl
I do know, however, what NOT to do.
Are you in favour of us getting into another war, then?
And if so, can you answer the questions I just posted?
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