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Quote: Kosh "TBH anyone who doesn't have an emotional reaction to the latest news from Syria is probably dead inside.

And no, I don't have any answers either.'"

TBH I have a 1 and a 2 year old and when I saw the footage I honestly though 'oh but for the grace of god go me and my kids' and I got upset at the thought.

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"You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie] "Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie] "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie] "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie] [url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg



Quote: Kosh "TBH anyone who doesn't have an emotional reaction to the latest news from Syria is probably dead inside.

And no, I don't have any answers either.'"


And I have not suggested that I know what the answer, as I quite clearly don't. But I know what it isn't.

And yes, you're right about the obvious and natural response to the recent footage and, indeed, the facts that we are hearing.

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The solution is easy - if the "West" has a moral, humaniarian interest in the people of Syria but the Russians and Chinese have other interests (as portrayed in our media), then global agreement could easily be reached. The West could say to Russia and China that they can have whatever influence over post-Assad Syria as they want if they help get rid of him. That way every one is a winner - the West's high morality is sated as is the Russian and Chinese desire for power, influence and resources.

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"You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie] "Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie] "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie] "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie] [url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg



Quote: Dally "The solution is easy - if the "West" has a moral, humaniarian interest in the people of Syria but the Russians and Chinese have other interests (as portrayed in our media), then global agreement could easily be reached. The West could say to Russia and China that they can have whatever influence over post-Assad Syria as they want if they help get rid of him. That way every one is a winner - the West's high morality is sated as is the Russian and Chinese desire for power, influence and resources.'"


Thank you.

A post that reveals again (were it needed) that you really do not have a clue.

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Quote: Mintball "

I mentioned Iran

Hit the nail on the head here Mintball.
Quote: Mintball " "We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow."'"

Despots, tyrants, mass murderers...call them what you will. The West's attitude has always been along the lines of 'it's ok as long as they're our despots, tyrants and mass murderers.'

In reference to the op, you therefore have to extend the question, adding 'how the hell do the Western politicians who put the tyrants in power, arming them to the teeth and selling them the intelligence and expertise to target and use those arms sleep at night?'

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Quote: Mintball "In asking what someone would suggest who has just said there should be no military intervention, you effectively suggest that you cannot see any other option.

I think that we – and other nations – should be very careful about what we consider.'"

Any action against a sovereign state is already extremely carefully considered (for many of the reasons you mention, and many others), regardless of the eventual, possibly unforeseen, outcome or of an often not fully informed public opinion. The hurdle with tyrants such as al-Assad is that the options are limited. Other despots have already proven they have no particular regard for the welfare of their populations and have no problem martyring them in the face of tough sanctions - is that fair on the civilian population? Political pressure only has limited influence; every nation on earth could be yelling at him to stop and he can ignore them. Whatever happens he'll have enough to keep his supporters and his army supplied and fed, and that's all that matters to him.

Quote: Mintball "I mentioned Iran
Yes, that a power vacuum will invariably be filled by the most aggressive and/or ruthless opportunist. And that what to all intents and purposes seems an entirely rational act of intervention at the time, can often later be condemned with the benefit of history.

Quote: Mintball "Look at Afghanistan for another example. So easy to look at the Taliban and say
Going into Afghanistan was bugger all to do with helping women. It was a direct result of 9/11 and the subsequent hunt for anyone and everyone associated with Al-Qaeda. That's the simple truth of it. All the supposed 'benefits' brought to the Afghan population are after the fact. The USA went after Al-Qaeda/Bin Laden with no exit strategy, and given what had just happened in New York as far as I'm concerned they were entitled to do so.

Quote: Mintball "Despots, tyrants, mass murderers...call them what you will. The West's attitude has always been along the lines of 'it's ok as long as they're our despots, tyrants and mass murderers.''"

You could say that of almost any nation. If a despot, tyrant, etc is perhaps favourable to a nation in terms of geopolitical support, trade, etc, and is doing no harm to said nation, why get snarled up in opposing them?

Quote: Mintball "In reference to the op, you therefore have to extend the question, adding 'how the hell do the Western politicians who put the tyrants in power, arming them to the teeth and selling them the intelligence and expertise to target and use those arms sleep at night?''"

If you read many memoirs of those involved in the few circumstances where this has actually occured, most of them express regret, but the common theme is, "it was the right thing to do AT THE TIME. How were we supposed to know what would come next?" As ever, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

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"You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie] "Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie] "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie] "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie] [url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg



Quote: Cronus "... Going into Afghanistan was bugger all to do with helping women. It was a direct result of 9/11 and the subsequent hunt for anyone and everyone associated with Al-Qaeda. That's the simple truth of it. All the supposed 'benefits' brought to the Afghan population are after the fact. The USA went after Al-Qaeda/Bin Laden with no exit strategy, and given what had just happened in New York as far as I'm concerned they were entitled to do so...'"


Yes. But one of the 'arguments' used in the media to justify it/garner support was to stress how the Taliban treated women (and others).

Quote: Cronus "... As ever, hindsight is a wonderful thing.'"


History's there for a reason.

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Quote: Mintball "History's there for a reason.'"


You are correct...

Its because it happened in the past.

World politics is a dirty business and always has been. Atrocities can be accepted if the overall influence of a certain regime is in line with what the rest of the world want for a region such as the middle east. Despite what we have been told, what history really teaches us is that at times (as mentioned) "tyrants" such as the Shah, Hussain, Gadaffi, Assad et al have suited the rest of the world (not just the west) as they stabilised the balance of power in the region preventing larger scale conflicts between nations.

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"You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie] "Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie] "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie] "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie] [url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg



Quote: Off! Number Seven "You are correct...

Its because it happened in the past...'"


And he who doesn't learn from it is condemned to repeat it.

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The older I get, the better I was Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator." cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg



Quote: Mintball "And he who doesn't learn from it is condemned to repeat it.'"


Especially true of Afghanistan.

We had three goes at it previously, even the might of the Soviet army couldn't manage Afghanistan. I don't think anyone has ever successfully prosecuted a conflict in Afghanistan.

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Quote: Mintball "Thank you.

A post that reveals again (were it needed) that you really do not have a clue.'"


You're not into satire / extreme irony then?

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'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world' Yves Le Prieur, the real inventor of the aqualung:



Quote: Barnabus "What would you suggest?'"


Send a strongly worded letter, stating our dislike of what they are doing and ask them politely to stop.

Then, sit on the fence for a few more years.

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"You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie] "Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie] "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie] "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie] [url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg



Quote: rover49 "Send a strongly worded letter, stating our dislike of what they are doing and ask them politely to stop.

Then, sit on the fence for a few more years.'"


What would you do – and would you also do something about all the conflicts FA linked to or just the one that's currently on our TVs?

If you don't think we should interfere in the others, why not? Why would Syria be more 'important' or whatever?

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"I've not come 'alfway round t'world fot watch us lose. And I've come halfway round t'world, an' av watched um lose":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10123.jpg



Quote: Mintball "How about what [iyou[/i would suggest?

You want to bomb more people? You want to invade, perhaps?

Big, macho things to do.

Where next? Anywhere else with nasty leaders who do nasty things?

The interfering of nations in the internal politics of other sovereign states has frequently worsened such situations in the past – see Iran as but one example – why would it be any different this time?

And see FA's post.

On top of that, consider this

In other words, you haven't a clue what you would do. Right?

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"You are working for Satan." [i:2886spie]Kirkstaller[/i:2886spie] "Dare to know!" [i:2886spie]Immanuel Kant[/i:2886spie] "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" [i:2886spie]Elbert Hubbard[/i:2886spie] "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." [i:2886spie]Oscar Wilde[/i:2886spie] [url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk:2886spie][color=#4000FF:2886spie]The Voluptuous Manifesto[/color:2886spie][/url:2886spie] – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1977.jpg



Yes. rlThat's what I said earlier.rl

I do know, however, what NOT to do.

Are you in favour of us getting into another war, then?

And if so, can you answer the questions I just posted?

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NRL 27 Newcastle14-6Dolphins
Sat 7th Sep
SL 25 Warrington16-2St.Helens
SL 25 Salford27-12Catalans
WSL2024 13 Wire W0-98St.HelensW
CH 25 Barrow24-36Toulouse
NRL 27 St.George24-26Canberra
NRL 27 Canterbury6-44NQL Cowboys
NRL 27 Penrith18-12Gold Coast
Fri 6th Sep
SL 25 Castleford12-34Leigh
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 25 619 336 283 40
Hull KR 25 669 311 358 38
Warrington 25 618 319 299 36
Salford 25 492 479 13 30
Leigh 25 548 362 186 29
St.Helens 25 544 366 178 28
 
Leeds 25 514 424 90 28
Catalans 25 439 415 24 26
Huddersfield 25 434 582 -148 18
Castleford 25 411 661 -250 15
Hull FC 25 320 812 -492 6
LondonB 25 309 850 -541 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 23 872 252 620 44
Bradford 23 602 359 243 30
Toulouse 22 624 322 302 29
Widnes 23 499 403 96 27
York 24 609 419 190 26
Featherstone 23 560 452 108 26
 
Sheffield 23 574 466 108 26
Doncaster 23 440 513 -73 21
Halifax 23 457 579 -122 20
Batley 23 364 497 -133 20
Barrow 22 384 634 -250 17
Swinton 23 418 590 -172 16
Whitehaven 23 400 772 -372 16
Dewsbury 24 292 793 -501 2
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