If Jeremy Corbyn had stuck with his true convictions and campaigned against the E.U, arguing a left wing stance for leaving, perhaps the party would be in pole position to sweep up lost voters.

As it is he pandered to the Blairites and went against his own beliefs and now they want to stab him in the back because they still don't realise the average British worker is anti-E.U and anti free movement of workers.

When did the 'left' decide people having to tout themselves across the continent looking for work was a good thing? In the 80's they fought to keep jobs in local communities and it was Tory's like Norman Tebbit who said 'worker's should get on their bikes and look for work'. Why do Labour and the left in general support Thatcherite philosophy?

Because it's still to the Left of Tory Party philosophy

I've said for years Labour have lost touch not only with their traditional supporters, but also the new generations of potential Labourites. They try to be everything to everyone but by diluting and confusing their message end up being very little to anyone.

The traditional working class supporter base, for the most, voted Brexit. This was obvious from the start, the only question was would that vote be...er...outvoted. A Euro-sceptic leader reluctantly campaigning for Remain was a farce. I'd have had more respect if he'd stuck to his values.

Labour is in a worse mess than 2014. They need to understand the Unions are long dead and their 'traditional' support now have minds of their own. They can, and will - and have - vote on what concerns them - not just because [i'me dad woz Labour'[/i.

Quote: LeighGionaire "As it is he pandered to the Blairites and went against his own beliefs and now they want to stab him in the back because they still don't realise the average British worker is anti-E.U and anti free movement of workers.'" I know that Leave voters are prone to mad statements, conspiracy theories, and demonstrable nonsense, but let's just clear one thing up: the majority of people in jobs voted Remain - by quite a margin. That's both fulltime and part-time jobs. See attached poll: lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/ho ... d-and-why/ The majority of who don't work voted Leave. That's overwhelmingly retired people. The "average British Worker", therefore, is a remain supporter who is horrified because the average British pensioner, having benefitted from the full employment, cheap housing, funded welfare state and full pensions of the post-war settlement, has just shafted the "average British worker" with his mortgage and bills, and the average British worker's kids, with their Uni fees zero-hours contracts and impossibly high rents, right up the backside. This vote has some very clear correlations: the older you are, the more likely you voted Leave less well-educated you are, the more likely you voted Leave. The less economically active you are, the more likely you voted leave. This outcome is the old, the ignorant and the non-working imposing an economic catastrophe on the young, the working and the educated. Bloody reality, eh?

Quote: LeighGionaire "As it is he pandered to the Blairites and went against his own beliefs and now they want to stab him in the back because they still don't realise the average British worker is anti-E.U and anti free movement of workers.'" I know that Leave voters are prone to mad statements, conspiracy theories, and demonstrable nonsense, but let's just clear one thing up: the majority of people in jobs voted Remain - by quite a margin. That's both fulltime and part-time jobs. See attached poll: lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/ho ... d-and-why/ The majority of who don't work voted Leave. That's overwhelmingly retired people. The "average British Worker", therefore, is a remain supporter who is horrified because the average British pensioner, having benefitted from the full employment, cheap housing, funded welfare state and full pensions of the post-war settlement, has just shafted the "average British worker" with his mortgage and bills, and the average British worker's kids, with their Uni fees zero-hours contracts and impossibly high rents, right up the backside. This vote has some very clear correlations: the older you are, the more likely you voted Leave less well-educated you are, the more likely you voted Leave. The less economically active you are, the more likely you voted leave. This outcome is the old, the ignorant and the non-working imposing an economic catastrophe on the young, the working and the educated. Bloody reality, eh?

Quote: Roy Haggerty "I know that Leave voters are prone to mad statements, conspiracy theories, and demonstrable nonsense, but let's just clear one thing up: the majority of people in jobs voted Remain - by quite a margin. That's both fulltime and part-time jobs. See attached poll: Perhaps I should have said the "average LOW PAID worker" voted leave. Study's have shown that the lower paid lose out under free movement of Labour - "UK studies find that immigration has small impact on average wages but more significant impacts along the wage distribution: low-waged workers lose while medium and high-paid workers gain" www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u ... mmigration So if the majority of workers voted to stay as you claim we can assume it was the medium/high paid workers who selfishly wanted to maintain the status quo, whilst the majority of low paid workers who's wages are adversely affected by the free movement of Labour wanted out. Just looking at the map of the U.K clearly shows all Labour's traditional heartlands, bar inner London and Scotland (who appear to have defected en masse to the SNP), wanted to leave. As for the young being all for the E.U, l'm pretty sure their sentiment would change if they lived in Greece and saw first hand how the young are being royally screwed over by the E.U and their bankster allies. 50% youth unemployment and being asset stripped while the E.U refuses to let them declare bankruptcy. The E.U is a neo-liberal super state that uses free movement of labour to drive down wages. Labour will never be relevant again until they acknowledge this fact.

Quote: Roy Haggerty "I know that Leave voters are prone to mad statements, conspiracy theories, and demonstrable nonsense, but let's just clear one thing up: the majority of people in jobs voted Remain - by quite a margin. That's both fulltime and part-time jobs. See attached poll: Perhaps I should have said the "average LOW PAID worker" voted leave. Study's have shown that the lower paid lose out under free movement of Labour - "UK studies find that immigration has small impact on average wages but more significant impacts along the wage distribution: low-waged workers lose while medium and high-paid workers gain" www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u ... mmigration So if the majority of workers voted to stay as you claim we can assume it was the medium/high paid workers who selfishly wanted to maintain the status quo, whilst the majority of low paid workers who's wages are adversely affected by the free movement of Labour wanted out. Just looking at the map of the U.K clearly shows all Labour's traditional heartlands, bar inner London and Scotland (who appear to have defected en masse to the SNP), wanted to leave. As for the young being all for the E.U, l'm pretty sure their sentiment would change if they lived in Greece and saw first hand how the young are being royally screwed over by the E.U and their bankster allies. 50% youth unemployment and being asset stripped while the E.U refuses to let them declare bankruptcy. The E.U is a neo-liberal super state that uses free movement of labour to drive down wages. Labour will never be relevant again until they acknowledge this fact.

I grew up in a small town called Golborne, it's an area that you could stick a red rose on a monkey and they'd vote for it, from being a young lad growing up in the 80's it has gradually declined and in all honesty it was never great at its peak. How have Labour ever repaid such blind loyalty to Golborne? They haven't, they have just watched it decline year on year, Thatcher closed the mine down rubber stamping the fact Tories will never be elected there and Labour have used that and taken the "I$$ out it. We only vote Labour in that area because of the hate for conservatives but Labour seem to think we agree with them and their policies, the truth is they stopped believing in them when Blair was in charge, no party will sway opinion there, Corbyn could have drove there knocked on every door with tea and biscuits and he wouldn't have changed a single mind.

As Andy Burnham stated a couple of weeks ago

" too much Hampstead , not enough Hull " in reference to Labour priorities

As I have said on here for years and on Twitter to most of the Labour leadership - Labour represents nobody and nothing. It has reaped what if has sown in Scotland and is now doing so in England. They are a bunch of stupid people. The comments before I went to bed last night from their spokespeople were frankly incredible. They don't seem to have any idea. They still refer to "our" voters and effectively then blame those voters. They ain't got any voters they have to earn votes by espousing something credible and coherent and not jus PC claptrap. That though is something they just don't get. They are an utter disgrace to Britain, its people and their party's fine history.

I think that the remainder of the EU will take a hit because of us leaving. Losing such a powerful economy will hurt it. It would be in their best interest to trade with us with as few restrictions as possible. That's if it even survives the next couple of years. More countries may push for leave.

I was always going to vote for leave so the economic/immigration arguments over the last few weeks haven't swayed me. I partly voted with heart over head, there may be a period of economic uncertainty but at least we will be free and democratic(ish).

Genuine question: in what way were you not free before?

To all those sore losers among the younger generations, I say this: we were taken into what is the EU by the Tory party on a campaign of lies, we were given a referendum in 1975 (under Labour) and that campaign was based on a project fear almost identical this times'. Politicians, especially the Tory party, then spent the next 40 years blaming all their incompetence on 'Europe' whilst still signing us up to Maastrict, etc. Is it any wonder that people you have seen and heard all this wanted out?

Also, it is clear that a lot of younger working class people voted out.

But if you want to blame somebody or something, blame a Tory party lead by two inexperienced, arrogant, overgrown school boys. Blame the most incompetent PM in post- war British history. He did not learn his lesson from the Scottish referendum. He offered a referendum on the EU in the Election manifesto to appease part of his party and see off UKIP voters in the expectation of losing that election. When he got a surprise win, did he not think it may have been in large part due to the referendum pledge? Clearly not, as he thought it would be a walk over and that with the Tory parry's usual divisive, divide and rule policies, the creation of a feeling of general insecurity among the population and a project fear it would be a walk over. But an out of touch PM misjudged things big time.

So if you are cut up about this and young, make yourself a solemn promise -NEVER vote Tory in the rest of your life. If you do, you will see economic incompetence, increased public borrowings and decreased public services, sleaze, arrogance and embarrassment. That has been the pattern during my life to date and I do not expect it to change anytime soon.

Dally I agree with your post but wish to add that the electorate would probably agree with you if there was a viable party to place their x against. By comparison the other parties are weak and until they all get themselves party leaders with coherent message then the status quo will prevail....

Leyther Paul Mason get it -- Quote: "But – and this is the final mindset shift we in Labour must make – free movement is over. Free movement was a core principle of the EU, developed over time. We are no longer part of that, and to reconnect with our voting base – I don’t mean the racists but the thousands of ordinary Labour voters, including black and Asian people – we have to design a migration policy that works for them, and not for rip-off construction bosses or slavedrivers on the farms of East Anglia.'" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... xit-brexit

Leyther Paul Mason get it -- Quote: "But – and this is the final mindset shift we in Labour must make – free movement is over. Free movement was a core principle of the EU, developed over time. We are no longer part of that, and to reconnect with our voting base – I don’t mean the racists but the thousands of ordinary Labour voters, including black and Asian people – we have to design a migration policy that works for them, and not for rip-off construction bosses or slavedrivers on the farms of East Anglia.'" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... xit-brexit